Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

No scholarships and ONE trip for our nationals?

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Reed, He's a rather prominent Mexican player who has attended and played at a few world's and a number of other US events. Colourful past. Well liked. Kinda a lot like you. I don't think this thread has developed into one discussing Mexican poverty - or insulting Canada in general. Just certain rather militant voices in the Canadian pokemon community. Don't take it so seriously buddy, since I'm sure that will only fuel the fire, and add to their fun.

Good luck at Nationals this weekend.
 
My biggest issue is that the sheer cost of an invite is outrageous. At minimum, one must attend a marathon of cc's, 3 states (at least one requiring a hotel stay), 3 regionals (at least one requiring a flight, more than likely two will), and the week of Nationals, with traveling to at least 8-10 BR and 3-4 CC's semi-locally. Additionally, one must buy cards from 4 different sets for 4 different "formats". All this is before you even consider the Worlds trip.

What I listed above, depending on your geographics, will cost you roughly around $2500 for the full season. Easily more for families who play competitively. Try selling that to a Pokeparent whose Junior has potential to succeed in the game. Quite frankly, I'm amazed people are still affording this year after year.

I don't believe people are asking for the world here. They may be asking for it in the wrong ways, but what is being asked is not unreasonable. If one is spending that kind of money, it's reasonable to expect some sort of return, even if it doesn't fully cover their costs. $2500 far extends beyond a "reasonable" expense for entertainment.
 
$2500 far extends beyond a "reasonable" expense for entertainment.

This is out of the subject. Clever investment before the price of the cards explose and a good card/deck management would help you to run at low cost ;). What costs the mosts it the travel expense, and you can only absorb the costs by reselling your prizes.
 
...you sure about that? I was pretty sure that was one of desert eagle's points; wanting at least as much prize support as the game once had. Ah, ok, perhaps I missed that one. For the most part, I have a feeling that we'd all love to turn the clock back to earlier more supported eras, but I suppose MOST people realize those days are gone. However, even a return of some form of scholarship would be nice, and 2 trips as well. I personally doubt that just having Worlds in Canada should make the difference as to why France, Germany, Italy and the UK have 2 trips per age group and Canada only has one. However perhaps that's only my opinion.

By emphasizing the important parts? Do you know what I used the former prize support for? Getting parents to let their kids play the game they already wanted to play. You grow the game by focusing on it being a fun, social hobby that can be used to teach money management and even investing. Ok, here's where YOUR analogy fails in my opinion: Tell me... how do people earn a raise at a job? Performance. Even jobs where you are contractually obligated to get a periodic raise still require you not get yourself fired or choose to quit. We're (as in most Canadians posting on this thread) not talking about getting a raise. We're talking about keeping our regular rate of "pay" that we had previously - scholarships and at least 2 trips paid. If instead of making an analogy we were talking about real employment, in most civilized countries it would be illegal to cut a person's wages to this extent. That's why your analogy doesn't fit.

I did not say that this was easy; it is quite hard. Still, it beats having players just in it for the prizes. I've seen first hand what that promotes; while there will still be players there to compete, you attract people just looking to cash in... and unsurprisingly this is very conducive to poor sportsmanship and even flat out cheating and theft. More people are going to succumb to the temptation of (for example) stealing an opponent's deck if it isn't just getting those cards (for personal use or resale) but also because there's a big payout on the line in the top cut.

Perhaps there is that danger, Otaku, but I failed to see that happening during the time of previous more well supported prize eras, so I doubt that would be prominent now. Sure there are the odd bad apple, but if in the future we go back to a slightly more prize rich event, it won't change the majority of pokemon players here in Canada - in my opinion.



If you're coming back for the right reasons, then it has nothing to do with the level of prize support, unless you are so economically challenged that the only way you can budget playing is if you win enough to cover costs (...which probably means that like me, you shouldn't be playing competitively to begin with :lol:). Apparently you and I are more similar than you think. :wink: If anything keeps you away from the game, it should be dissatisfaction with the game mechanics or distribution methods... a topic for an entirely different thread. Oh I certainly can think of a few more reasons than that, but agreed ... other topics.

I think you've made some good points in various posts, Thank you. You too. :thumb: but I think you have to remember that there are many people sounding off here; I didn't quote it in the interest of space but you mentioned how "you" weren't speaking for everyone... and a lot of what is being said isn't about you. It isn't just your comments that are giving Canada a black eye here; the sum total of militant "Better prizes or nothing!" is. Especially for being the first time Worlds wasn't in the U.S.

I believe this is where you and I differ. I believe the relevance of the location of this years World Championships to this topic in the reader's mind should be noted, but ignored. The fact is, prizes were severely cut. If your prizes were cut this severely in the US, there would be a huge outcry. I'm not trying to say that we DESERVE more than anyone else, but that we shouldn't be PENALIZED more than anyone else! Hopefully this cutting trend will be reversed next year, and no one else has to deal with this, but the Canadian pokemon community will survive it, hopefully mostly intact. Only time will tell.
 
I believe this is where you and I differ. I believe the relevance of the location of this years World Championships to this topic in the reader's mind should be noted, but ignored. The fact is, prizes were severely cut. If your prizes were cut this severely in the US, there would be a huge outcry. I'm not trying to say that we DESERVE more than anyone else, but that we shouldn't be PENALIZED more than anyone else! Hopefully this cutting trend will be reversed next year, and no one else has to deal with this, but the Canadian pokemon community will survive it, hopefully mostly intact. Only time will tell.

While I agree that location of worlds should not matter, if there are budget pressures then location will have an influence upon budget.

Here is where I cannot agree with you: Prizes at one event that is a part of the whole budget were cut.

Now I don't know what the bigger picture is regarding the NA budget but I can say that, without knowing the whole picture, emotive terms like PENALISED don't help discussion.
 
Ok, Ian, so how do you think the average player would feel if in the UK Prizes were cut to 1 trip per age group and no scholarship (when before you had scholarships up to $5000, just because World's was being held in Nuuk Greenland (a comparable distance from Toronto to Vancouver is 3354 km. Nuuk Greenland is 3255 km from London.) Hey, if it was me, I'd feel penalized. What would you call it? It doesn't matter what you call it, the results are the same.

From a post here on the gym by Gengar 16, there's 268 players - 174 of which are Masters, 55 Seniors, and 39 Juniors. From what he said, that's the largest Nats attendance here in Canada. That's despite major flooding in parts of Western Canada as well. I'm sure that very few of those 268 players are concentrating on the fact that prizes were less than last year, but there certainly are those who have it in the back of their minds as they compete.
 
Ok, Ian, so how do you think the average player would feel if in the UK Prizes were cut to 1 trip per age group and no scholarship (when before you had scholarships up to $5000, just because World's was being held in Nuuk Greenland (a comparable distance from Toronto to Vancouver is 3354 km. Nuuk Greenland is 3255 km from London.) Hey, if it was me, I'd feel penalized. What would you call it? It doesn't matter what you call it, the results are the same.

From a post here on the gym by Gengar 16, there's 268 players - 174 of which are Masters, 55 Seniors, and 39 Juniors. From what he said, that's the largest Nats attendance here in Canada. That's despite major flooding in parts of Western Canada as well. I'm sure that very few of those 268 players are concentrating on the fact that prizes were less than last year, but there certainly are those who have it in the back of their minds as they compete.

A long time ago the UK had two trips and scholarships, the next year it was one trip. If there were complaints they were very quiet ones.

Prize support at regionals and cities has gone down under my watch. Players grumbled but understood - it is possible to demand too much and kill the golden goose. I wonder if the leaked reduction in support for next season across the whole of Europe is a consequence of some other parts of Europe not making the numbers work well. The number of regional events has gone down in the UK too in the past. But has since gone up as attendance improved. Next year I think it is going down again but next year I'm not involved so I don't know. Maybe the UK is a bit more accepting of cycles and the inherent ups and downs that brings. Maybe the costs are just more visible as UK players have to pay for every event other than nationals.

Just how much does Canadian OP cost? I don't know, but if the number of trips had to go down then it is likely it was too much.
 
:biggrin: Probably because those players at that time felt that there was no way they could beat Sammy .... am I right? LOL Just kidding.

I have no doubt that a lot of the players (everywhere - not just in the UK or Canada) realize that budgets don't stay the same forever. And even with a static budget (which we were told TPCi's budget has been like for a while), prices for everything from plane tickets to office supplies continue to rise (at least here at an average rate of 2% per year) necessitating cuts in something whether we like it or not. However, the wisdom of cutting the prizes from the biggest show of the season escapes me. Maybe that's just my flaw. I don't know, but regardless of the reasons, it still distresses me (even though I'm retired), and obviously a few other current players, or this thread would not exist, and neither would any of the comments of those having dissenting views. :rolleyes: Perhaps we're just giving you something to talk about, and nothing will be done. Like David Schwimmer said on one of his posts here on the gym: "My child most certainly doesn't get ice cream when she kicks and screams and throws a tantrum for it." But a reasonable discussion of the problem - like this thread has been (for the most part) can be a dialog for change. I think it was a worthwhile topic, regardless.
 
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I doubt that OP want to cut nationals. But what do you do when the budget is gone?

You can't have ice cream this week if you spent all the money last month.
 
However, the wisdom of cutting the prizes from the biggest show of the season escapes me.

First a quick note; I noticed you responded to some stuff earlier and either I agreed with your counterpoints or just didn't feel the differences were worth the effort of arguing and could just stand on their own.

Anyway, what makes more sense; cutting Prize support for a big tournament or several smaller ones?

Given how this in part started because "it is too expensive/far to travel to Canadian Nats without a travel award", it really seems smarter to ultimately inconvenience... was it three people? Who under the previous years rewards would have gotten trips, but didn't this year. This thread has gone on long enough that I am getting a bit "fuzzy" on the facts, so please correct me if I've goofed that up.

I'll also remind people of how this comes across: if you want Worlds to be in Canada again, you probably need to accept that priority will be on getting people from other countries to Canada, not Canadians to a different part of Canada. Otherwise, this thread is really looking like an argument for why Canada should not host Worlds again: it is so expensive that even Canadians can't afford to come! Yes, I know the specifics aren't quite as bleak, but it isn't all perception.

But a reasonable discussion of the problem - like this thread has been (for the most part) can be a dialog for change. I think it was a worthwhile topic, regardless.

You might want to go back and read the original post of this thread (I did take time to do that, and a few afterwards); this conversation got reasonable because Canadian apologists made a concentrated effort to salvage it. It began as unreasonable and with that foundation, it is unlikely to change unless those voices just drop out and stay out. If you really want to have a good discussion on this, consider asking the moderators if you can start a different thread (or just write an article on it) so you can get rid of the baggage.

Lastly, because it comes up in general as well as in some of your posts... just because U.S. players (or those of most countries) would complain in similar situations doesn't mean it would be the right choice, and thus shouldn't be cited as justification for dissatisfied Canadian players on this thread (this does not preclude justification from a different source).
 
I doubt that OP want to cut nationals. But what do you do when the budget is gone?

You can't have ice cream this week if you spent all the money last month.
I hope you don't mean Nationals (the event), but rather prizes from Nationals as is what this thread is about. However yeah, I suppose it's kinda hard to recoup money already spent.

.....Anyway, what makes more sense; cutting Prize support for a big tournament or several smaller ones?

Given how this in part started because "it is too expensive/far to travel to Canadian Nats without a travel award", it really seems smarter to ultimately inconvenience... was it three people? Who under the previous years rewards would have gotten trips, but didn't this year. This thread has gone on long enough that I am getting a bit "fuzzy" on the facts, so please correct me if I've goofed that up.

I'll also remind people of how this comes across: if you want Worlds to be in Canada again, you probably need to accept that priority will be on getting people from other countries to Canada, not Canadians to a different part of Canada. Otherwise, this thread is really looking like an argument for why Canada should not host Worlds again: it is so expensive that even Canadians can't afford to come! Yes, I know the specifics aren't quite as bleak, but it isn't all perception.



You might want to go back and read the original post of this thread (I did take time to do that, and a few afterwards); this conversation got reasonable because Canadian apologists made a concentrated effort to salvage it. It began as unreasonable and with that foundation, it is unlikely to change unless those voices just drop out and stay out. If you really want to have a good discussion on this, consider asking the moderators if you can start a different thread (or just write an article on it) so you can get rid of the baggage.

Lastly, because it comes up in general as well as in some of your posts... just because U.S. players (or those of most countries) would complain in similar situations doesn't mean it would be the right choice, and thus shouldn't be cited as justification for dissatisfied Canadian players on this thread (this does not preclude justification from a different source).

Hmmm, on one hand I see your point about it inconveniencing 'only' 3 people in total (as far as the cost of trips are concerned). However that doesn't take into account the lost scholarships. That also doesn't take into account what was said on another thread about a different subject - sorry if I can't find it directly but it goes something like this: There are 100 players out there that think they are in the top 25. Yes, targeting both scholarships and trips meant that more people get despondent of their chances to receive a chance both to get to World's and to better themselves with better education. For example, a lot of people these days play the lottery (fools that they are - in my opinion of course), but they don't play because they are sure they'll win, but that they figure sooner or later 'somebody's gotta win, maybe it might be me.' Lessening the chances of players to get those prizes will eventually stunt the players' efforts to grow this game, and grow themselves, and will eventually be harmful in the long run. It causes things to plateau, slowing growth. Hopefully there will be a return to earlier prize levels (but not necessarily the highest prize levels) before the plateau and decline.

Perhaps it might be best if it isn't held in Canada again. Who knows? It's nice that it got moved around this year, and I hope it does finally now get the international feel it deserves, regardless of any future location. I suppose I didn't lobby for it to move out of the States in the first place. I have no 'stake' in the conversation - since unless it's being held in Toronto I doubt I could afford to go anyway. However, it's not the location of World's that I base my comments upon, but the amount of prize support that I question. It's not me who cares how many people show up at World's here in Canada (nor where they came from, how they got the trip, or how much it took to get them here), nor the future of if it will ever be offered to be sent here again. That's irrelevant to this discussion in my opinion. Neither I nor any other Canadian should be penalized on Nat's prizes just because someone may (or may not) feel jealous that it isn't being held in their own back or front (in my case) yard (and yes, I honestly do have enough property for it to be held in my front yard).

And I'd never want to get rid of any of what you call "baggage" from this topic any more than I'd prefer to lose your or NoPoke's opinion. Some of both their and your points have been valid. Both their and your feelings on the subject are valid. I value everyone's opinion and sometimes their feelings, even if I don't always agree with anyone in particular. Whether you feel questioning whether similar situations occurring in other countries is 'right' or not, allowing yourself to empathize with the situation can help you realize this isn't just a black and white topic. You can hold both dissenting views and come off the better for it. I hope I explained myself sufficiently without dissecting your post with red ink :wink:.
 
Just quoting for "jumping off points":

Hmmm, on one hand I see your point about it inconveniencing 'only' 3 people in total...

Just to be clear; assuming the cut had to happen somewhere, how likely is it that it would not be more damaging to cut prizes at a lower level, given that while the lower level prizes are more numerous, they are also less expensive (and thus more would have to be cut)? I just want to be sure I wasn't obfuscating my own point; even if you consider everyone in Nationals as "affected"... how would that compare to the full attendance of a lower level tournament series?

I don't know off the top of my head what Canada hosts, but assuming you have them, if all your City or Regional Champhionships had to have their prizes also trimmed, wouldn't that discourage things even more? Again, if I missed where all of that was also cut this year, please let me know as I was operating under an incomplete picture.


That's irrelevant to this discussion in my opinion. Neither I nor any other Canadian should be penalized on Nat's prizes just because someone may (or may not) feel jealous that it isn't being held in their own back or front (in my case) yard (and yes, I honestly do have enough property for it to be held in my front yard).

Here we must flat out disagree, perhaps in part because your take completely misses my point. (Bold for emphasis, not because I am raging or anything. :lol:)

The purpose of travel awards is to get a competitor to Worlds. Is it a nice reward? Yes, but considering there is a finite budget we are dealing with, then it seems only prudent to cut back on trips for the host country. So if you feel that said trips are an important part of the prizes, then I would suggest (especially) a cost efficient alternative to provide to the host country. Perhaps some promo cards that are only available for winning Nationals; not something overly unique (e.g. providing them some potential hideous card pool advantage) but perhaps (even if they can't be handed out immediately) some of the Worlds swag (often good for re-sale) could be substituted and mailed out (or awarded at Worlds). Obviously another "Tropical Beach scenario would result in card pool advantage, but that is a separate issue.

And I'd never want to get rid of any of what you call "baggage" from this topic any more than I'd prefer to lose your or NoPoke's opinion.

Bad analysis is bad analysis. Rude posts are rude posts. Restarting a thread does not rob someone of their past points; indeed if they really wish they could re-post (I know I do XD). What it can do is trim the fat from a discussion as well as avoid needlessly offending or confusing newer participants in the conversation.

Note that I made the suggestion because you keep insisting that the overall tone of this thread, set largely by the early posts, isn't "negative", and I very much disagree. If you quit painting things so rosily, I think the discussion is largely played out and a new thread unneeded.
 
I came back to see how things were
I wasnt expecting top32 binder prize.

im never coming back until they change prizes
goodbye pokemon, you were good for a while.

Canadian Pokemon is a joke now.
 
Top 16 nationals prize was... 3 packs? Even if it was a 200 man tournament... 3 packs for an event of that magnitude? US battle roads wins netted you 4 packs and those events were 1/3rd the size....

I'd be interested to know what the full prize layout for Canadian nationals was if this is really the case. That seems really, really low....
 
Top 16 nationals prize was... 3 packs? Even if it was a 200 man tournament... 3 packs for an event of that magnitude? US battle roads wins netted you 4 packs and those events were 1/3rd the size....

I'd be interested to know what the full prize layout for Canadian nationals was if this is really the case. That seems really, really low....

we didnt even get Nationals T-shirts
 
Just to be clear; assuming the cut had to happen somewhere,
Wrong assumption, Otaku. Who says that has to be the case? Why can't TPCi find new sources of income to take care of emerging markets instead of cannibalizing current ones? However let's go with your assumption for the purpose of this post.
... how likely is it that it would not be more damaging to cut prizes at a lower level, given that while the lower level prizes are more numerous, they are also less expensive (and thus more would have to be cut)?
Here's a fix I thought of in 5 minutes. It may be oversimplified and may need some polish to implement, but it would work. TPCi considers BR's as more or less insignificant, and other than some players' goal of gaining PPs, the pull of the prize structure is pretty minimal. Why doesn't TPCi use the savings which would accrue from providing product (through no production of non essential boosters, and the resultant postal savings - since the remaining prizes could be shipped in bubble envelopes) to provide a second trip to Mexican and Canadian markets, and possibly even resupply small scholarships even, without cannibalizing any from the European markets. Though this may cause a small amount of attendance loss, it won't stop many people from playing for the promo, PPs, and bragging rights. Spoiler alert for those who have been hiding under a rock for the past few years, you might not want to read the next sentence: It may also cause a slight gain in value for TPCi since here in North America, TPCi has paid PTO's for each player who attends. However, perhaps TPCi may be able to slightly make up for any confirmed loss of income from the last year in some other manner, perhaps by raising the base compensation for each reported event - or providing only the PTO's and certain more prolific TO's special tournament-worthy promos that they can sell or use to supplement their loss (another suggestion originally forwarded by you which I've just adopted to fit a need). In any case, with a little out of the box thinking by the employees at TPCi, and listening to suggestions from people like from the grassroots league leaders, owners, and tournament organizers, they can still show that they still value growth and prevent attrition from poor Nat's prizes (like Sebastian's post exemplified).
I just want to be sure I wasn't obfuscating my own point; even if you consider everyone in Nationals as "affected"... how would that compare to the full attendance of a lower level tournament series?
Since it's been put forth by David Schwimmer that Canada seems to cycle between the 5 or 6 hundred players or so during any given event series, once the word is given that lower prizes at BR's would make larger Nat's prizes, I'm sure players would be willing to run with it. Like I said earlier, there may be instances of lower attendance at SOME events across North America, but for the most part, I have a feeling it won't be too bad.

I don't know off the top of my head what Canada hosts,
Other than the larger areas of geography inhibiting inexpensive travel between larger sections of the player populations and somewhat less numbers of events in the western portions of the country (3 BR's/CC's per event cycle compared to Ontario's 15+ events), Canada has pretty much the same schedule as the US has. However traveling to multiple states/regionals can be a very expensive pastime due to geography.

but assuming you have them, if all your City or Regional Champhionships had to have their prizes also trimmed, wouldn't that discourage things even more? Again, if I missed where all of that was also cut this year, please let me know as I was operating under an incomplete picture.
It's pretty hard to give a concrete answer to a hypothetical question, especially not knowing the scope of the cuts and areas affected. No way I could even hazard a guess. As for if States/Regionals was short prized here in Canada, I'm afraid I have no idea - bad memory for that sort of thing. You'd have to ask some of the other more prolific players.

Here we must flat out disagree, perhaps in part because your take completely misses my point. (Bold for emphasis, not because I am raging or anything. :lol:)
On the contrary, I do see your point. However earlier I postulated that a finite budget might not be the problem you think it is. Either seeking a larger source of income, or better and different management of supplies that are available will change things significantly. Opening yourself to the possibility of change actually sometimes being better can show most dissenters here that it's possible to make a difference without sacrificing huge sections of prize support.

The purpose of travel awards is to get a competitor to Worlds. Is it a nice reward? Yes, but considering there is a finite budget we are dealing with, then it seems only prudent to cut back on trips for the host country.
Hmmmm, ok let me remind you of that next time Worlds is back on American soil. Ha ha.

So if you feel that said trips are an important part of the prizes,
Yes, along with the Scholarships .... for some reason people are just not getting the fact that I find those as being just as if not more important than the trips. :rolleyes::nonono:

then I would suggest (especially) a cost efficient alternative to provide to the host country. Perhaps some promo cards that are only available for winning Nationals; not something overly unique (e.g. providing them some potential hideous card pool advantage) but perhaps (even if they can't be handed out immediately) some of the Worlds swag (often good for re-sale) could be substituted and mailed out (or awarded at Worlds). Obviously another "Tropical Beach scenario would result in card pool advantage, but that is a separate issue.
Hmmm, I suppose that's not an overly bad solution. It's probably worth a look, and certainly shows you think outside the box as well. That's what TPCi needs to listen to.

As for the rest of your post, hopefully when TPCi reads this thread, as they invariably will, hopefully they will realize that even though SOME might not possess tact, their message is still pertinent and they should look past the manner of the message to the meat of the message which is this: Current prize support is failing to entice players. Too much is spent unwisely that could and should be earmarked for better Nats prizes, not cutting of such.
 
Stop me if I am wrong, but the prizes are almost the same everywhere (except for US).

Pokémon USA provides the same prizes for every national (the 2 boosters for top16 that was mentioned above for example) and it is up to the local distributor to add more prizes. Scholarship was cut not only for Canada, but everywhere also. The National T-Shirt, I haven't seen any t-shirt since the Blastoise one very very long time ago, but maybe that was something only for North Americans until now...

The only thing that seems to change is the 2nd travel awards, and even for that I wonder if the distributor has to participate to the costs.
 
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