One Side of the AZ States issue(now with both sides post 117)

[Chairman Kaga]

Everyone also seems to be ignoring the potential for abuse by not playing that first game. It's a much easier path to the top cut by slicing through the 0-1's than trying to remain undefeated, not to mention the effect on ratings points. I have a strong feeling that this weighed in the decision to deny entry.

 

[ryanvergel]

This is disgusting to see the higher-ups of PUI defending an obviously horrible decision, and misrepresenting good, respected players.

 

[BLiZzArD]

Everyone also seems to be ignoring the potential for abuse by not playing that first game. It's a much easier path to the top cut by slicing through the 0-1's than trying to remain undefeated, not to mention the effect on ratings points. I have a strong feeling that this weighed in the decision to deny entry.

my problem with this arguement is the fact that there were 5 master division players why would we want to each take a 1st round loss which would in turn make us face each other and pick each other off. Also anyone claiming that I would lower the integety of any event I would be part of not only shows how little they know me (Trish and I have been friends for 6 years) but truley offends me I bleed red and white I LOVE this game.

BLiZz

 

[Squirtle]

It's threads like this that are why I don't post here anymore.



I happened to log in to see the states thread.


You can't go into a thread without reading a sarcastic post by SD pokemom (that would normally get a normal member banned/infraction points) or a ridiculous post by prime where he once again shows he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Everyone also seems to be ignoring the potential for abuse by not playing that first game. It's a much easier path to the top cut by slicing through the 0-1's than trying to remain undefeated, not to mention the effect on ratings points. I have a strong feeling that this weighed in the decision to deny entry.

TOM software automatically puts you as the lowest X-X record. So if he went 4-2 or 5-1 he would be rated below them thus missing cut.

 

[Scizor]

I think you kinda missed something there...Even without the delay of adding serveral late entries (and that is a delay, even if you don't realize it) the event was an hour late in starting. Neither delaying 100+ people nor pulling staff away from areas that they were needed during Round 1 (and probably short-staffed) would be a fair or smooth way to run an event. Especially if you're on a time limit.

Not saying it was a great solution, but it is the PTO's responsibility to ensure the timely, smooth running of the event.

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You're kinda getting to the point of rude, personal attacks that don't add to the thread there...

I really don't think there was any 'power tripping' going on here.

The thing is, there is a big reason why the event was actually an hour late. The event lost its Head Judge during all of this. I'm sure that at least had something to do with it starting late.

If there was a time limit for the event, putting 7 players in after round 1 (with a loss) wouldn't have affected it whatsoever, considering you'd be doing it in between rounds 1 and 2. On top of that, it wouldn't have affected the numbers enough to increase the rounds or amount who make the cut.

 

[Lawman]

Well, since Dave (PUI Brass) has weighed in here a few times and answered for PUI, unless Trish wants to say anything on the issue, it appears this issue is closed and this thread may need to be locked before people get banned for spouting off. Ken has had his say, PUI has answered.

Keith

 

[ryanvergel]

I don't see the benefit of teaching players that it's okay to rush into registration at the last possible moment, rather than showing up plenty early and assuring themselves of a seat in the event. The manpower and time necessary to register players is considerable, and players showing up at the last minute slows things down for everyone, especially those who arrived plenty early to get checked in and ready to play.

Uncontrolable circumstances!?

Time of departure: Controlable
Remembering medicine: Controlable

What part of the circumstances that led to this group being late was beyond thier control?

Had Ken chosen to leave at an earlier time, they would have had more time to turn around and get the medicine, and go back. Had the adult person who needed the medicine, remembered their medicine, there would have been no need to turn around. Had they simply continued to the venue, registered, and spoken to the PTO about one person having to go and get the medicine, and accepting the possibility of a first round loss should they not return in time, I'm sure the PTO would have accepted that circumstance.

Your point about a PTO getting paid for these participants cuts right through your argument about an abuse of power. She LOST money by doing this. This obviously was not an optimal choice for her to take, as I'm sure she would've loved crack the 100 participants number. But she obviously had reasons that she felt strongly enough about, to make this call, not just for Ken, but for all players that were late.

Thank you,
Prof. Dave

More assumptions?

You have no clue what happened. You at first assumed that Ken was slacking off and leaving to cut time close, now it's that he should have somehow left much earlier to make sure that if they needed to turn around they could? What a horrible argument.

Are you really suggesting that they should have continued driving to the event, had everyone register except for the person who needed medicine, and that the person who needed medicine should then drive all the way back home, using another person's car, and get the medicine, to then turn around and drive back to the event so that the people at the event could have their car/ride? This is absolutely silly.

The point of money doesn't cut through my argument at all. It just shows how bad the PTO is.

This is a disgusting thing to see: defending these obviously horrible actions of a PTO. This system is obviously flawed.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

TOM software automatically puts you as the lowest X-X record. So if he went 4-2 or 5-1 he would be rated below them thus missing cut.

Given a large enough field, all the X-1's will make top cut along with a couple X-2's. The lateness becomes irrelevant as long as they can sweep.

 

[SD PokeMom]

patricia is unable to post until later today, once she's home from work. i'd suggest that people wait to draw their conclusions till they hear both side of the story, myself...

'mom

 

[Scizor]

Everyone also seems to be ignoring the potential for abuse by not playing that first game. It's a much easier path to the top cut by slicing through the 0-1's than trying to remain undefeated, not to mention the effect on ratings points. I have a strong feeling that this weighed in the decision to deny entry.

You're missing a huge point here. There is no way it is easier to start 0-1 and try to make a cut, ever. Even if you thought it would be, you need to look at the situation: These were 7 experienced and good players. The odds of them facing off in the earlier rounds is now even GREATER because you gave them all the same record (0-1). So, the chances of them making the cut, and therefore, having a chance to win the event are actually decreased in this case.

 

[ape101]

I think there should be a poll on this.

P.S. Go Ryanvergel!

 

[Godzfirefly]

If there was a time limit for the event, putting 7 players in after round 1 (with a loss) wouldn't have affected it whatsoever, considering you'd be doing it in between rounds 1 and 2. On top of that, it wouldn't have affected the numbers enough to increase the rounds or amount who make the cut.

That is only true if you have an excess of staff members to enter the players in. Adding late entries either delays the entire tourney, or pulls a judge/TO/other-staff-member away from the duties they need to perform, to perform 5-7 deck-list checks, enter the players into the computers, etc. In large events like this, you never have staff members just standing around doing nothing. Especially not early in the tourney.

 

[Squirtle]

Given a large enough field, all the X-1's will make top cut along with a couple X-2's. The lateness becomes irrelevant as long as they can sweep.

You clearly dont attend enough events. The odds of all 7 sweeping to go 6-1 or whatever is <5% easily.

Your assuming they don't play each other or get donked.

Your original post also hinted that they might have been doing it on purpose.

Crim, Chad, Ken, and Wes all trying to abuse the system by starting 0-1... On a NORMAL day they make cut anyways.

 

[ryanvergel]

That is only true if you have an excess of staff members to enter the players in. Adding late entries either delays the entire tourney, or pulls a judge/TO/other-staff-member away from the duties they need to perform, to perform 5-7 deck-list checks, enter the players into the computers, etc. In large events like this, you never have staff members just standing around doing nothing. Especially not early in the tourney.

Deck checks are optional.

The delay would have been one person at the computers imputing 7 players in as r1 losses. Perhaps a few minutes lost to save 7 people all the time and money and resources they wasted to make it to the event.

If the computer people really needed 2 hours to input that tiny bit of material, then give the 7 players 2 rounds of losses. LET THEM PLAY though.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

I made no claims that it was a particularly bright plan.

Just that there is a strong potential for gaming the system there.

 

[Scizor]

Ryan pretty much summed up the situation in his last post. It can't take long to input 7 POP IDs into TOM in between rounds, especially when all 7 have been in the system before.

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I made no claims that it was a particularly bright plan.

Just that there is a strong potential for gaming the system there.

Gaming the system and having a better chance of facing the top players I drove with? Are you serious? I'm like borderline offended you would even say something like that.

 

[Magnechu]

If they wanted to start off 0-1 wouldn't they just scoop the first game anyway?

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Gaming the system and having a better chance of facing the top players I drove with? Are you serious? I'm like borderline offended you would even say something like that.

Good for you.

If they wanted to start off 0-1 wouldn't they just scoop the first game anyway?

One of these options kills their premier rating. One grants no rating change at all. Care to guess which is which?

 

[ryanvergel]

I don't see how entering in at 0-1, having the worst resistance, facing the "losers" whose wins would yield less resistance versus beating better players is in any way smart. Not to mention there would be 7 total 0-1s entering in, so you would literally be playing against the people you came with.

I don't see any opportunity to game the system. You would be shooting yourself in the foot if you really tried to do what you describe, CG. You rob yourself of any resistance in entering in at 0-1, and you face the losers, and your wins against them count as less than others beating winners. You also face off against other 0-1s whom you came with, and who are very skilled.

What I see are a bunch of poor excuses to justify the actions of the PTO. The PTO made a horrible, disgusting decision- and it's worse that people are defending it.

 

[G landers]

omg

iam very saddened to hear about such a debacle because the PTO that runs most of the canadian tournaments lets people who come a half hour late into the event!
hope that this does not become a consistent problem for the players