psychup2034
New Member
Sometimes humans inevitably revert to their basic and childish inclinations. It's often easier to be cynical and see the worst in people than to accept the fact that people can genuinely change for the better.
Pokebeach: A 'Note' About Prerelease Scans
- Thread starter pikapower99
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Sometimes humans inevitably revert to their basic and childish inclinations. It's often easier to be cynical and see the worst in people than to accept the fact that people can genuinely change for the better.
I think its kinda sad to be mad (as in stressing yourself out and ruining your health) at this guy for leaking a bunch of POKEMON CARDS on the internet. If people were so mad they should have had the TPCi taken the guy to court over it and been done with it if they felt they were really being harmed (since Im sure there are some legal complications in taking intellectual property not released and disrupting them along with damages dealt to businesses if you could really prove there was, which personally i doubt it). Realistically, NOTHING CHANGED as a result of this guy releasing scans. NOTHING, I dont see why everyone has to get serious about bs. Theres no way to prove that anyone was losing money due to people not knowing what the cards were and if they were good or not. Plus you can just look at the Japanese sets and get a general idea anyway of what they are anyway and with the pre-releasing giving out jack **** (by the sounds of it at least), how can you realistically expect anyone to wanna show anyway.
Like are you seriously going to mad at a CHILD for telling the world information that is already out on the internet for the most part? To me thats not only incredibly immature, but just a huge flaw of our society to take out our own problems on a kid who ALL HE HAD AT THAT TIME was Pokemon. All he had was this imaginary universe that made him happy and yeah sure he messed up (to some unprovable extent realistically) but honestly how many people on this website can say that they NEVER made ANY mistakes as a kid?
I dunno if its an American thing or if the rest of the world thinks this way but people need to chill out when it comes to money and just enjoy what they have. Getting mad at children about things that probably didnt make a realistic difference on their business is just not only depressing but just one of the most low points I think our society has to offer.
Like are you seriously going to mad at a CHILD for telling the world information that is already out on the internet for the most part? To me thats not only incredibly immature, but just a huge flaw of our society to take out our own problems on a kid who ALL HE HAD AT THAT TIME was Pokemon. All he had was this imaginary universe that made him happy and yeah sure he messed up (to some unprovable extent realistically) but honestly how many people on this website can say that they NEVER made ANY mistakes as a kid?
I dunno if its an American thing or if the rest of the world thinks this way but people need to chill out when it comes to money and just enjoy what they have. Getting mad at children about things that probably didnt make a realistic difference on their business is just not only depressing but just one of the most low points I think our society has to offer.
rivershock
Member
Posting pictures ahead of time isn't necessarily redundant. It can show you, say, if promos get inserted into the set (Lampent says hi), or if cards got "cut". It also shows what rarities cards are. Especially notable for cards that were in decks in Japan.
That being said, I see why he chose to stop doing so. ;p
That being said, I see why he chose to stop doing so. ;p
I understand the obvious pros to posting the scans ahead of time and get that there was probably some legality issues as well, but to get emotional about it and to take your anger out on another individual means that theres a whole other set of issues people in general need to be straighted out about.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
A few things to note.
1.) WPM is NOT a child, he's a college student, and he's been in college for a while.
2.) Businesses for better or for worse are generally in it for profit (the shareholders sure are), that means that they want as much control so they can get the most profit.
3.) Possibly the most important. This isn't simply about scans, far from it. There are other issues, as I mentioned before. Someone was leaking cards (or at the very least pictures) of unreleased product. Where these came from most assuredly gave anyone who hears from the top bracket (as well as themselves) a headache.
sentimentGX4
New Member
The issue isn't that WPM decided to stop posting scans. The issue is the way he went about announcing it. He did in the most sycothantic matter and he basically threw all Pokemon TCG fans under the bus.
"Look everyone, I'm turning over a new leaf! Stop selling me heroin!!!" This is basically the position WPM and his supporters are taking and that's what grinds fans' gears. First, there is no new leaf. Posting scans isn't that wrong. Second of all, you weren't doing this just for the goodness of the community. You're caught up in your own ego too. And, third, we didn't force you to post scans so stop saying that you were succumbing to the demands of the community. Plenty of people would gladly take your place. Take responsibility for your own actions.
/rant
(And seriously, WPM, when Psyduck closed the thread, he was doing you a favor. People won't be able to bash you anymore. Do you honestly think that defending yourself while giving more people the opportunity to bash you is better for your image or reputation? It just attracts more attention and makes your scandal even bigger.)
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He was a child when he started to leaking the scans.
IMO people should have just done something about it instead of just complaining like a bunch of kids (ironic, right?). If its THAT bad, then they should have cracked down harder on figuring out how the scans get leaked.
That or someone from TPC should have been fired. How thein scans could have went from their company to some random person (in their eyes) probably was more the companies fault than the person spreading them.
---------- Post added 01/26/2013 at 10:17 PM ----------
Except that theres legality issues involving what he was doing. Those scans are intellectual property of TPC that haasnt been released to the public. If someone really gave a **** he could have gotten sued. But nobody has any balls to do it so there for nothing happened.
Its really all one big mess but at this point who really cares? The spoilers are basically out there. Sometimes some cards get cut, sometimes we get a bunch of junky promos instead, its really just a game in the end that ends up getting all of its cards out at some point regardless.
psychup2034
New Member
First of all, it's a stretch to interpret WPM's post as sycophantic. Most fans appreciate the fact that WPM has put forth the effort over many years to expediently post new card scans on the internet. It's a further stretch to imply that he threw all Pokemon TCG fans under the bus, which he certainly did not.
What also grinds fans' gears is that people like you blindly participate in the vilification of someone who has done more to promote the Pokemon TCG—whether you're willing to admit it or not—than almost every other fan.
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Well, as losjackal notes, its not entirely down and there are many factors in attendance. That said, I do miss the DP style sleeves... terribly.
And the economics of it is this. A Japanese deck box is like $10-20 and lasts quite a while (not perfect but for most people longer than several sets of sleeves). A set of sleeves, such as my beautiful Joltik sleeves costs $20-30 and remains unmarked for a few events. Sleeves > Deck Boxes.
The DP sleeves, as noted, were amazingly cool and quality durable with the best sleeves that I have played (I'm no expert). The problem with those days was that those sleeves were faintly translucent and since we allowed Japanese cards, created a marked condition, since the radically more colorful Japanese back were clearly noted through the sleeves.
So, manufacturers inserted a silver (and sometimes gold) metallic layer that mostly caused curling and delamination, but also made the sleeves completely opaque so we could play Japanese cards without creating marked card conditions. Then, Japanese cards were not allowed in tournament play. When that happened, I expected the good durable, sharp looking sleeves would return. However, as soon as this rule change went into effect we got the boxes instead.
Let's see, on topic:
*filtered, noisy breathing* "Apology accepted, WPM."
:tongue::lol:
You have to understand, you have this group of people who are under oath not to reveal anything; an oath they take as a condition of running the events. They can totally know every card in the set and could run the scans out there themselves, but they signed a contract not to do so. Particularly galling was spoiling the sleeves or promo card.
psychup2034
New Member
Nothing personal against anyone, but I interpret this statement as an implication that WPM isn't truly at fault, but he is rather used as a scapegoat because it is more difficult to persecute (literally and figuratively) those people who are under oath not to reveal anything who actually do leak scans.
I know of at least 2 players who went to the Dragons Exalted prerelease (despite the price increase resulting from costs being passed onto the players) for the sole reason that Altaria (believed at the time to be a Tier 1 card because of Yuta's performance) was the prerelease promo card. The fact that Altaria was the promo card certainly helped drive attendance numbers at Dragons Exalted prereleases, and Pokebeach is certainly partially to thank for disseminating that information.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
First of all he's no longer a child. Just because he started doing it as a kid (and even then he wasn't super young), he is an adult now.
Also let me just say you don't fully understand the issues. I won't lie, neither do I, but I do know that this isn't as simple as it seems.
Fun Fact: If something seems ridiculously obvious chances are there's more to it and you just have a very boiled down version.
Yeah but people gave him hell then and it was worse then since he had no real understanding of his actions. I have no idea how it got to the point to where someone kept handing him scans and nobody was losing their job. A lot of companies have secrets that they are paid to keep. Legal agreements are made to not leak certain information,its part of working for a lot of corporations. Why they were giving their information to someone they couldnt trust on an annual basis is beyond me.
I dont believe that this situation was that complicated. I just think theres a lot of dumb people involved. Its not uncommon in America for stupid people to be running things, make major intel mistakes, and not be held accountable.
I feel at this point if theres no positivity to be gained out of this then people should just forget about it. Theres nothing that serious really going on.
Boy, this has been interesting to watch! I'd been dropping by the beach hoping to study up on what made the cut for the new set. I like to be prepared before the prereleases, so I can speak with some intelligence and answer general questions about the cards in the set.
Recently, I saw... nothing... nothing... nothing... WPM's statement. I read it. Hmm. I got into pokemon during the HGSS series so I get the feeling I've missed a lot of the stuff he's talking about. Or maybe it was just too far out of the public eye. I'm not really into the VG so a lot of what I see at the Beach isn't for me and I skim past it.
I do recall over the last couple years seeing some info about how he started the site when he was young and now he's in grad school, trying for a career in the film industry. He says he's 24 and starting to realize that he's made some mistakes in his life. You know what? I'm 42 (hey look! 24 mirrored makes 42!) and I can certainly relate to that story. Doesn't mean it's true, but I can certainly relate to the sentiment. I'd say that was about the age I started to distinguish Shinola from the, shall we say "poor imitations".
Clearly I'm in no position to judge one way or another. I'm sure some of the long-time members of the community feel they are in a better position and some of them clearly have some strong opinions on his sincerity. And I recognize some names who've spoken up on this thread as being people who probably know better than I do, but I also consider whether they present a logical argument or just ad hominem type attacks.
I do believe that in general "information wants to be free". I think there is validity to the argument that if the set released is "good" then information about it will grow interest. Similarly if the set released is "bad" then interest will wane. This is the crux of the free market, right? At the same time I realize that "good" and "bad" are definitely subjective. I can say that in the couple of years I've checked the Beach pre release scans, I don't really recall much editorializing - obviously the 'shopped Switch withstanding. But to be fair I do believe I heard the same sentiment echoed on the Gym as well.
So have the leaked scans in the past hurt or helped pokemon? I sure couldn't say. I'm not sure anyone could. Helped how? Increased sales? Let's look at controlled data (probably hard to get) and see. Help prerelease attendance? Probably even harder to control for this variable. Helped customers make a spending decision they are comfortable with? Well, probably, but again hard to measure.
You know what drew me in and keeps me excited to be involved in Pokemon? The community. The warm, embracing, and giving spirit. I can say the quality of people in my life has never been higher than since I got involved with Pokemon. This topic has brought out a lot of debate and a lot of bitterness. And over what? A man who says "sorry, I see the error of my ways".
I can't vouch for the sincerity of his statement. I do believe that time will tell. And clearly he has burned as many bridges as he claims, so his standing may be on rapidly shrinking ground. But I say let time put him to the test. As a community I think we should focus on promoting the positive.
If you don't believe a word he says and feel compelled to say so, then by all means speak up. But do remember that people who don't have the same conviction are likely to see you as simply being negative, whether right or wrong. And they will remember that about you.
This thread has certainly provided me with a little more insight on members of our community. I do want to say thank you to Charranitar for the points he made. I hope everyone has a good week of prerelease's and remember, as cheesy as it sounds, "you've got to accentuate the positive, and eliminate the negative". Words for Pokemon, the internet, and life.
Recently, I saw... nothing... nothing... nothing... WPM's statement. I read it. Hmm. I got into pokemon during the HGSS series so I get the feeling I've missed a lot of the stuff he's talking about. Or maybe it was just too far out of the public eye. I'm not really into the VG so a lot of what I see at the Beach isn't for me and I skim past it.
I do recall over the last couple years seeing some info about how he started the site when he was young and now he's in grad school, trying for a career in the film industry. He says he's 24 and starting to realize that he's made some mistakes in his life. You know what? I'm 42 (hey look! 24 mirrored makes 42!) and I can certainly relate to that story. Doesn't mean it's true, but I can certainly relate to the sentiment. I'd say that was about the age I started to distinguish Shinola from the, shall we say "poor imitations".
Clearly I'm in no position to judge one way or another. I'm sure some of the long-time members of the community feel they are in a better position and some of them clearly have some strong opinions on his sincerity. And I recognize some names who've spoken up on this thread as being people who probably know better than I do, but I also consider whether they present a logical argument or just ad hominem type attacks.
I do believe that in general "information wants to be free". I think there is validity to the argument that if the set released is "good" then information about it will grow interest. Similarly if the set released is "bad" then interest will wane. This is the crux of the free market, right? At the same time I realize that "good" and "bad" are definitely subjective. I can say that in the couple of years I've checked the Beach pre release scans, I don't really recall much editorializing - obviously the 'shopped Switch withstanding. But to be fair I do believe I heard the same sentiment echoed on the Gym as well.
So have the leaked scans in the past hurt or helped pokemon? I sure couldn't say. I'm not sure anyone could. Helped how? Increased sales? Let's look at controlled data (probably hard to get) and see. Help prerelease attendance? Probably even harder to control for this variable. Helped customers make a spending decision they are comfortable with? Well, probably, but again hard to measure.
You know what drew me in and keeps me excited to be involved in Pokemon? The community. The warm, embracing, and giving spirit. I can say the quality of people in my life has never been higher than since I got involved with Pokemon. This topic has brought out a lot of debate and a lot of bitterness. And over what? A man who says "sorry, I see the error of my ways".
I can't vouch for the sincerity of his statement. I do believe that time will tell. And clearly he has burned as many bridges as he claims, so his standing may be on rapidly shrinking ground. But I say let time put him to the test. As a community I think we should focus on promoting the positive.
If you don't believe a word he says and feel compelled to say so, then by all means speak up. But do remember that people who don't have the same conviction are likely to see you as simply being negative, whether right or wrong. And they will remember that about you.
This thread has certainly provided me with a little more insight on members of our community. I do want to say thank you to Charranitar for the points he made. I hope everyone has a good week of prerelease's and remember, as cheesy as it sounds, "you've got to accentuate the positive, and eliminate the negative". Words for Pokemon, the internet, and life.
P_A
Active Member
Hmmm, I've read the whole thread, and I don't see too many people doing this, so here goes: Thank you WPM for finally seeing the need to work with TPCi and its PTO's. If indeed you do honestly try to do so, you may notice things getting even better. In the end you made a good decision here. Please be true to your word.
For those of you who don't know, this post came from a person who is entirely retired from the pokemon tcg who once was both a PTO and also a global moderator here on the gym - neither of which responsibility do I hold now (so I have no stake on the outcome either way).
For those of you who don't know, this post came from a person who is entirely retired from the pokemon tcg who once was both a PTO and also a global moderator here on the gym - neither of which responsibility do I hold now (so I have no stake on the outcome either way).
dialga master
Member
Why does it matter? 'Beach got all the scans up today. Thats one day after the first set of PR's. The difference is a few days and one PR...
And for me, PRs are dead until they give out prizes/sleeves/make it cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I love them, but the $$$ is usually better spent getting the actual cards I will use.
And for me, PRs are dead until they give out prizes/sleeves/make it cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I love them, but the $$$ is usually better spent getting the actual cards I will use.
I agree with dialga master. He's got the scans up already and people are still arguing about him releasing scans just a few days before? It's just stop complaining over nothing and if he does it next format (although I really miss early scans), you have the right to complain but I doubt most people will be listening. There! Is everybody happy now!?
Shining Raikou
New Member
WPM told me to stop posting but I'm gonna do it anyway.
I see people that keep saying "if." Stop saying "if." Like I said in my first post, I've been on WPM's staff for years now. He doesn't just make these huge long posts and then there's a possibility he won't stick to what he's saying. He keeps his promises. He's told everyone he's not going to do it anymore, so he's not. I even said it before, he's been talking to some of his staff about this for a while now and to me he's always seemed like he's hated doing it, especially recently. So there's no "if." WPM does what he wants and this is what he wants to do.
I just want to respond to a few things I've seen mentioned here. To the poster who says WPM has an ego and turned his back on his fans or whatever you were saying. For someone who has such a large website with such a huge following, I think WPM is very well grounded, and I rarely see any real bragging from him. He's actually extremely humble and just wants to promote some fun in the world. There's no doubt that someone who started such a large site when they were 14 wouldn't have some maturity issues and I think we have all see moments when WPM has been very immature like any kid would be at his age. For one, he's always been very sensitive, and that's lead him to lashing out at times. But I know from talking to him that a lot of that stems from the hate he used to get on this forum, the hate he often felt from the company whose product he was only trying to support, and even from other sick-in-the-head webmasters in the community (Serebii comes to mind). When you've got all these people attacking you, I'm sure you'd be a little explosive and short-tempered too. WPM is also very protective of the site, which often makes him a little too competitive, but I think anyone would be that way when running a website for as long as he has.
But other than that stuff, I know WPM well and he's a genuinely good person. He's compassionate, he's actually very intelligent, he's passionate and devoted, and he's especially wise for his age. It's not a coincidence he got into the best film school in the world or that he has this popular website that he has been running for almost 10 years now. I don't think most people even realize how much work he actually deals with or how much he has to juggle all the time. Most of the time he's juggling running the website while sitting in class, or talking to us in the car on the way home, or even on the toilet (ugh). And that's just scratching the surface. School and directing projects already make it hard for him to get any sleep and yet he's often up even longer than other peope working on news stories or finding programmers or whatever other website stuff he has to deal with. It's not an easy life to live and even he admits it to us sometimes. But I bet this is the kind of person who is going to be going places. So I personally think it would be smart if Pokemon and the TOs just sat down and worked with him. He's pretty down to earth and only bites your head off sometimes (usually when we didn't do something we were supposed to, haha).
I see people that keep saying "if." Stop saying "if." Like I said in my first post, I've been on WPM's staff for years now. He doesn't just make these huge long posts and then there's a possibility he won't stick to what he's saying. He keeps his promises. He's told everyone he's not going to do it anymore, so he's not. I even said it before, he's been talking to some of his staff about this for a while now and to me he's always seemed like he's hated doing it, especially recently. So there's no "if." WPM does what he wants and this is what he wants to do.
I just want to respond to a few things I've seen mentioned here. To the poster who says WPM has an ego and turned his back on his fans or whatever you were saying. For someone who has such a large website with such a huge following, I think WPM is very well grounded, and I rarely see any real bragging from him. He's actually extremely humble and just wants to promote some fun in the world. There's no doubt that someone who started such a large site when they were 14 wouldn't have some maturity issues and I think we have all see moments when WPM has been very immature like any kid would be at his age. For one, he's always been very sensitive, and that's lead him to lashing out at times. But I know from talking to him that a lot of that stems from the hate he used to get on this forum, the hate he often felt from the company whose product he was only trying to support, and even from other sick-in-the-head webmasters in the community (Serebii comes to mind). When you've got all these people attacking you, I'm sure you'd be a little explosive and short-tempered too. WPM is also very protective of the site, which often makes him a little too competitive, but I think anyone would be that way when running a website for as long as he has.
But other than that stuff, I know WPM well and he's a genuinely good person. He's compassionate, he's actually very intelligent, he's passionate and devoted, and he's especially wise for his age. It's not a coincidence he got into the best film school in the world or that he has this popular website that he has been running for almost 10 years now. I don't think most people even realize how much work he actually deals with or how much he has to juggle all the time. Most of the time he's juggling running the website while sitting in class, or talking to us in the car on the way home, or even on the toilet (ugh). And that's just scratching the surface. School and directing projects already make it hard for him to get any sleep and yet he's often up even longer than other peope working on news stories or finding programmers or whatever other website stuff he has to deal with. It's not an easy life to live and even he admits it to us sometimes. But I bet this is the kind of person who is going to be going places. So I personally think it would be smart if Pokemon and the TOs just sat down and worked with him. He's pretty down to earth and only bites your head off sometimes (usually when we didn't do something we were supposed to, haha).
WPM told me to stop posting but I'm gonna do it anyway.
I see people that keep saying "if." Stop saying "if." Like I said in my first post, I've been on WPM's staff for years now. He doesn't just make these huge long posts and then there's a possibility he won't stick to what he's saying. He keeps his promises. He's told everyone he's not going to do it anymore, so he's not. I even said it before, he's been talking to some of his staff about this for a while now and to me he's always seemed like he's hated doing it, especially recently. So there's no "if." WPM does what he wants and this is what he wants to do.
I just want to respond to a few things I've seen mentioned here. To the poster who says WPM has an ego and turned his back on his fans or whatever you were saying. For someone who has such a large website with such a huge following, I think WPM is very well grounded, and I rarely see any real bragging from him. He's actually extremely humble and just wants to promote some fun in the world. There's no doubt that someone who started such a large site when they were 14 wouldn't have some maturity issues and I think we have all see moments when WPM has been very immature like any kid would be at his age. For one, he's always been very sensitive, and that's lead him to lashing out at times. But I know from talking to him that a lot of that stems from the hate he used to get on this forum, the hate he often felt from the company whose product he was only trying to support, and even from other sick-in-the-head webmasters in the community (Serebii comes to mind). When you've got all these people attacking you, I'm sure you'd be a little explosive and short-tempered too. WPM is also very protective of the site, which often makes him a little too competitive, but I think anyone would be that way when running a website for as long as he has.
But other than that stuff, I know WPM well and he's a genuinely good person. He's compassionate, he's actually very intelligent, he's passionate and devoted, and he's especially wise for his age. It's not a coincidence he got into the best film school in the world or that he has this popular website that he has been running for almost 10 years now. I don't think most people even realize how much work he actually deals with or how much he has to juggle all the time. Most of the time he's juggling running the website while sitting in class, or talking to us in the car on the way home, or even on the toilet (ugh). And that's just scratching the surface. School and directing projects already make it hard for him to get any sleep and yet he's often up even longer than other peope working on news stories or finding programmers or whatever other website stuff he has to deal with. It's not an easy life to live and even he admits it to us sometimes. But I bet this is the kind of person who is going to be going places. So I personally think it would be smart if Pokemon and the TOs just sat down and worked with him. He's pretty down to earth and only bites your head off sometimes (usually when we didn't do something we were supposed to, haha).
The part I've bolded seems very off to me. If you have a problem with how the community thinks about WPM, how is Serebii-bashing fine?
Water Pokemon Master
<a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p
Oh come on, I've only talked on the toilet a couple of times.
Serebii used to be very well known for being a bully in the Pokemon community. Even TV Tropes acknowledges this, lol. He's calmed down in recent years though.
- "Serebii" (real name Joe Merrick, ironically provided by a page about him on rival Bulbapediahttp://static.mediatropes.info/pmwiki/pub/external_link.gif. No relation to aintitcool's Joeseph Merrick as far as we know) hosts one of the two most well-known Pokémon sites, the self-titled Serebii.net, and has been known to appear on other Pokémon-related forums, as well as on Star Trek-related forums under the name of Captain Joe. His attitude regarding other Pokémon websites and a few allegations of plagiarism (though unsubstantiated in recent years), bullying and looking to pick fights (even with other fandoms!) have given him his own personal Broken Base amongst Pokémon fans. His animosity with Bulbagardenhttp://static.mediatropes.info/pmwiki/pub/external_link.gif and PokéBeachhttp://static.mediatropes.info/pmwiki/pub/external_link.gif in particular is near-legendary, though he still frequents both sites.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Oh come on, I've only talked on the toilet a couple of times.
Serebii used to be very well known for being a bully in the Pokemon community. Even TV Tropes acknowledges this, lol. He's calmed down in recent years though.
- "Serebii" (real name Joe Merrick, ironically provided by a page about him on rival Bulbapediahttp://static.mediatropes.info/pmwiki/pub/external_link.gif. No relation to aintitcool's Joeseph Merrick as far as we know) hosts one of the two most well-known Pokémon sites, the self-titled Serebii.net, and has been known to appear on other Pokémon-related forums, as well as on Star Trek-related forums under the name of Captain Joe. His attitude regarding other Pokémon websites and a few allegations of plagiarism (though unsubstantiated in recent years), bullying and looking to pick fights (even with other fandoms!) have given him his own personal Broken Base amongst Pokémon fans. His animosity with Bulbagardenhttp://static.mediatropes.info/pmwiki/pub/external_link.gif and PokéBeachhttp://static.mediatropes.info/pmwiki/pub/external_link.gif in particular is near-legendary, though he still frequents both sites.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second.
This is about how you chose to stop posting early scans, not the behavior of other webmasters. Stop trying to scapegoat other webmasters when they have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.
Instead of pointing fingers in other places and dodging the actual issue, (and this doesn't even have to be in public) maybe you should talk with those who can actually do something. I know that some of the mods here have a rep for being 'unreasonable,' but I'm sure that they'll be willing to maybe help you, but you have to take the first step. Leave the baggage at the door and try to see what you can salvage.
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