Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Rare Candy Question...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr. Grass said:
The old cards may have been produced under Wizards but originally they came from TPC. And "It's an old card" is a sad excuse to ignore old rulings. A lot of the new rulings we have are based on older rulings. If the new cards are truly going to be compatible with old cards we need rulings that apply to all of the cards. Previous rulings with cards like Eevee and Koga's Kakuna have set the precedent that "counts as evolving" only means the cards trigger effects that occur when evolving (Chain Reaction) and are not limited by the first turn/in play restriction. This new ruling changes the meaning of "counts as evolving", so we should examine the older cards and see if we can determine a difference between them and Rare Candy. Otherwise we currently have conflicting definitons of what "counts as evolving"
Click to expand...
The truth is that the old cards AREN'T compatible with the new cards. All of the old cards had "pokemon powers" and there isn't a new card alive that shuts them off. They all shut off poke-powers and poke-bodies. You add int eh fact that in modified, we weren't playing any of the old cards at all really, other that the few that was being brought back into modified by the help of LC, then we haven't been playing the old cards since....before Neo Genesis. Nintendo doesn't want to go back and issue changes for every ruling because it would be too much work. So when the new modified comes out, it won't have LC. Now my guess is as bad as yours but I think we all meet an agreement. It will either be Exp-On or EX-on. There not going to let us keep Neo Genesis and surely not give us all the cards back. So in the end, it doesn't matter if the cards are compatible with the old cards because we won't be playing them. Now for unlimited, I dunno.

What is this with everyone saying that "counts as evolving" made it so that it could evolve whenever? When you lay a evolution card from your hand down onto a pokemon, that "counts as evolving" and it does all the special things but you still can't lay the evolution down first turn. Not only does it say that it MUST count as evolving. So if you can't evolve, and it tries to cout as evolving, then it doesn't work. How hard is that to accept.

You claim you hit someone with a bat. But there is no bat anywhere, and there is no bump on the person's head. It didn't happen then. You must fullfill everything about a action to do it. For evolution to occur, even with a trainer, you must still fullfill every part of it. And guess what, the last part says that you cannot evolve a pokemon you just layed down or on the first turn. If it didn't say that then it proberly could do that but then also I could get a stage 2 on all my pokemon out first turn.

If Rare Candy would allow eolvution first turn, it would be too broken for the metagame. People would run 4 in every deck. Not adding in that it isn't a supporter, which is not common to see a broken card not as a supporter. Then add in that it breaks one of the biggest rules in the game.

MtJimmer said it, I don't see a reason to fight it. Your just wasting your time.
 
"how should it be played??"

The way it has been ruled. (THanks for the ruling MTJ! though i don't really agree with it) Cannot be played first turn. Cannot be played on R&S Babies.

Still need to know about the "(This counts as evolving that Pokémon)." now means "follows the normal Evolution rules" in regards to the "(This counts as evolving that Pokémon)" that means "Just a reminder that Special Conditions are removed and anything triggering an event when a Pokémon Evolves still happens."

and

Can Rare Candy be used on non-R&S Babies? (otherwise the "Stage 1" wording really leaves a can of worms)

"The truth is that the old cards AREN'T compatible with the new cards."

Funny, it has already been stated that the R&S ARE compatible with cards already released.

"You add int eh fact that in modified, we weren't playing any of the old cards at all really, other that the few that was being brought back into modified by the help of LC, then we haven't been playing the old cards since....before Neo Genesis."

Neo block and E card block are all "old" cards compared to R&S. Still have Pokémon Power in Neo. Neo & E have Babies with the Baby rule.

"Nintendo doesn't want to go back and issue changes for every ruling because it would be too much work. So when the new modified comes out, it won't have LC. Now my guess is as bad as yours but I think we all meet an agreement. It will either be Exp-On or EX-on. There not going to let us keep Neo Genesis and surely not give us all the cards back. So in the end, it doesn't matter if the cards are compatible with the old cards because we won't be playing them."

And when the announce MF is current MF with a list of cards banned.....just don't let anyone else know. ;)

"Now for unlimited, I dunno. "

Well there you have the big issue. People will be playing R&S in Unlimited. Must know how the cards work this older cards.

"What is this with everyone saying that "counts as evolving" made it so that it could evolve whenever? When you lay a evolution card from your hand down onto a pokemon, that "counts as evolving" and it does all the special things but you still can't lay the evolution down first turn. Not only does it say that it MUST count as evolving."

Discovery Eevee, promo Eevee and Koga's Kakuna all have "counts as evolving" in their Powers that allows them to Evolve the turn they are played. Even first turn (Gymbo's fantasy first turn was to have 1 Energy Evolution Eevee and 3 Chain Reaction Eevees out first turn, attach an energy to Energy Eevee, get heads, and have 4 first turn Evolutions out). See first turn evolving exists and the "counts as evolving" was just a reminder that other things happened (like Special Conditions going away from the Evolved Pokémon). So since we have had a ruling that "counts as evolving" is a reminder, we are used to it being just a reminder. Now it means "obeys the rules of Evolution" and need clarification on the already ruled cards. It's called consistency (which doesn't really exist for Pokémon but we'd really like some anyways).

Rare Candy in the GB game levels up your Pokémon so even if you just go it, if you have enough Rare Candy, you could raise your Pokémon to its Stage 2 evolution without ever once battling. So if you were going to make a card that mimicked Rare Candy in the GB, it should break the normal Evolving rules.
 
Last edited:
Thank you! Someone who finally sumed up all I was saying.

I really think that the Compedium needs to get together on the subject and dicuss this one out. The reason I say this is because alot of people look to you guys as the guys to ask about a ruling in the card game.

I agree with BJJ763. How does "Counts as Evolving" mean one thing in the past before this card and now it means totally something different. If it means what it is to be stated it mean now then it would change alot of cards of the past. (i.e Chain Reaction Eevee and so on.)
 
I agree with BJJ and Kanga -- if it counts as evolving, it just has the same effects as any other evolution, but not the same limits unless that is specifically stated. The only difference here is that the evolution is played from the hand rather than pulled from the deck, as has been the case wherever "this counts as evolving" has appeared before. All that difference means is that any game effect that specifically prohibits or affects the playing of Evolution cards from the hand, like Fossil Aerodactyl, also affects the use of this Trainer. The game may not always be logical, but we do have a system of precedents which should be used unless there is specific reason not to.
 
mtjimmer said:
"This counts as evolving that Pokemon."

1. Removes Special Conditions.
2. Counts as; is considered; equals. No first turn evolution, cannot evolve a Pokemon that was just played.

As an aside, since it doesn't say it breaks the first turn evolution rule, it can't. Quit your dreamin'. :)

<snip>

Great discussion.

MTJimmer

***
Jimmer Sivertsen
Pokemon USA, Inc.
Click to expand...

1. Agreed.

2. Disagree - too many precedents have shown that the card doesn't have to explicitly say it breaks the first turn/same turn played evolution rule to do so.
 
Sorry if I missed this or not but there are so many pages on this thread...
Anyway, can Wally's Training get through the first turn evolution rule, as rare candy now can't?
 
Well Pojosama brung up a very good point. People were wondering why it said "lay a stage 1" well it could and would get past a pokemon power. Now remember another person, can't remember there name, said back there that this is nintendo. Nintendo didn't write all those cards back then and nintendo didn't rule all those cards back then and now they are ruling these. They have changed the rules before and I guess they are changing them now. All the cards in the past that did it, don't I guess.

It's a brand new game folks, you should have known that from the start!
 
What we have here is a case of intent versus literal interpetation. Rare Candy was never intended to break the evolution rule of first turn no evolutions. Thus, it does not. It does not say that it does, so the intent takes over. Also, keep in mind that not all WoTC rules were clarified by Japan.
 
How do you know Rare Candy wasn't intended to break the first turn evolution rule? We don't have any offical rulings from Japan. And thus far every other card that has "counted as evolving" has gotten around the restrictions unless they specifically said they didn't. And the question still stands, if Rare Candy doesn't get through evolution limiting then why have Stage 1's on the card?
 
It wouldn't be the first time a card didn't quite make sense. As for what the intent of the card is, I believe that is revealed by MTJimmer's ruling. He has a more astute viewpoint that none of us share. If the intent of the card really is to allow first turn evolution, then I guess Japan will have to overrule Jimmer at some point.
 
Mr. Grass said:
How do you know Rare Candy wasn't intended to break the first turn evolution rule? We don't have any offical rulings from Japan. And thus far every other card that has "counted as evolving" has gotten around the restrictions unless they specifically said they didn't. And the question still stands, if Rare Candy doesn't get through evolution limiting then why have Stage 1's on the card?
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter if it was or not. MTJimmer ruled that it doesn't. Maybe it was intended to, but until a higher up changes the rule, the rule sticks. The answer to your question is because sometimes you cannot evolve that isn't against the rules. Like with the omastar/kabutops from skyridge that says that you cannot lay a evolution card down while they are active. Well this card gets around and lets you do that. Also with the babies like cleffa or pichu, not from sandstorm but from other sets, now they can evolve into clefable and raichu. Does that answer your question?
 
"Like with the omastar/kabutops from skyridge that says that you cannot lay a evolution card down while they are active. Well this card gets around and lets you do that. Also with the babies like cleffa or pichu, not from sandstorm but from other sets, now they can evolve into clefable and raichu. Does that answer your question?"

As I recall, those haven't been varified.
 
I better watch what I said. Thanks for correcting me yoshi, I was thinking up a answer for his question. Really, before they go back through every question we have, we can't see what does what with what. It's like if they just started the WotC chat when Skyridge came out. Alot of catching up.
 
Espeon walks in the room and notices the big debate.
Espeon having a great deal of Eeveelution experience
sits down and reads all the post...

Furret walks in...
Furret "What's up??"
Espeon "It's the great candy debate..."
Furret "Hmm..."

Espeon "I think I see part of the problem here."
Furret ???
Espeon "A player (who is called the Trainer of the Pokemon) has certain restrictions
placed upon them -- the three no no Evolution rules:
No evolution on turn one
No evolution the first turn a Pokemon comes into play
and No evolution on a Pokemon that has already been Evolved."
Furret nods solemnly

Espeon "However, a Pokemon does not have any restrictions placed on it
about Evolution. That is why Pokemon Powers and Attacks have never
been subject to these rules."
Furret nods solemnly
Espeon "This has always been this way, the rules restrict a Trainers actions,
but not the Pokemon's actions."
Furret "So can the new Sandstorm Wynaut be played unto the table
and the have Wobbuffet put on top of it immediately?"
Espeon "Yes, because it was Wynaut using its own Pokemon Power
and not the Trainer that caused Wynaut to Evolve."
Furret "So whether the text on an Eevee Pokemon Power is similar to
a trainer card is not really important -- it is who is doing the actual
evolving that matters!"
Espeon nods solemnly.

Furret rushes off.
Vaporeon comes in a shakes water all over Espeon.
Vaporeon "What's up??"
Espeon "It's the great candy debate..."
Vaporeon "I see, a Trainer Card must definitely say it can break the
rules of Evolution, because the Trainer is playing it, while we Pokemon
can do whatever we please, any Eeveelution knows that..."

Furret comes back with a huge sack of Lava Cookies and
begins handing them out...

A group of Cleffas and Igglybuffs come marching by carrying Balloons
and waving a Banner that reads "We love the Baby Breeder!"
They each take a Lava Cookie and continue their Parade.
Furret "A bit early to celebrate isn't it?"
Vaporeon "When the smoke clears and the dust settles, Rare Candy will
probably be a Breeder for both Basics and True Babies...MT Jimmer just gave us
a ruling on Sandstorm Pichu who isn't a Baby at all, and does not normally
evolve into any Pokemon."
 
According to japanese ruling.....
This card can be played even in first turn or the turn Basic Pokemon that just put in play.
 
I personally hope thid card doesnt allow first urn evo. It would be too broken and it would be in every deck. I'm the pokemon power thing still works though.
 
I believe I said that, too, Kanga. Actually, I think what I said was that it could rebalance Unlimited, which is currently badly unbalanced IMO, but that it would totally ruin Modified. In Unlimited, Evolutions are mostly locked out because there are so many good BBPs, so Rare Candy might give them the speed they need, but Modified doesn't have these Pokemon, so the lean toward Evolutions would become an extremely unbalanced advantage for Evolution Pokemon. The difference is what other cards are in the card pool.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top