The effect on US nationals from Canadian Nationals?
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1. It deals 40 to itself. Making it vulnerable to a variety of return koes.
2. It is lightning type, meaning it is weak to the popular Donphan.
3. After it manages one attack, and gets one shotted, your bench is now full of pachis and shaymin so bench space is extremely small.
4. Requires quite a bit of luck to manage the consistent damage.
Hatter™
Active Member
If you aren't playing Defender in any Zekrom deck, I don't think you are playing it correctly.
120... you'll do 20... which would make the donphan have to have a pluspower to KO you the next turn. It also helps vs Magnezone [making them remove 3 energy], and other Zekrom + Reshiram. It basically requires all of the big dogs to have a pluspower to knock you out.
120... you'll do 20... which would make the donphan have to have a pluspower to KO you the next turn. It also helps vs Magnezone [making them remove 3 energy], and other Zekrom + Reshiram. It basically requires all of the big dogs to have a pluspower to knock you out.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
At least he's actually tried to defend his home turf before. 'Cause you know, that's what you do when people ignorantly laugh and chide at your metagame without having ever even played there. What you're doing here sets a horrible example and precedent, because if it's okay for US to criticize others without knowing the whole story, then it becomes okay for Americans to do the same to one-another, and then it eventually leads to just incessant player vs. player bashing. In short, what you're doing is encouraging some of the worst unsportsmanlike conduct in the game, so knock it off. In this past year alone, Canadians have invaded and done quite well in multiple states, including a major win in Ohio by Vegetalian.
As for Exploud ex/Golem, this may seem contradictory to what I just said, but I agree with Jimmy that it sounded like a horrible concept, and to this day STILL sounds horrible! However, the reason why that belief isn't contradictory is because I refuse to extrapolate anything else out of that:
It says little bout its player; says less about his opponents; and says virtually nothing about the Canadian metagame. That year, Speed Spread/Flygon ex d/Flygon ex LM were popular decks, and Exploud ex runs nicely against all of those, so it's foreseeable that the deck won...Pray tell, if things were a bit different, then we would have had a Canadian worlds winner instead of a Finnish winner!
...Which reminds me: didn't everyone say that Finland sucked, despite producing the first (and to this day, only) non-American/Japanese winner?
If there's any one certainty, it's that you can't be certain about anything.
But Defender says done by an opponent's attack after weakness or resistance. It doesn't include your own attacks. So 130-40=90 Then 60x2-20=100 so it still one hits it and Zekrom can't even one-shot it 90% of the time so it doesn't work. :/
Unless it got errata'd then you'd be right, but I haven't heard of any errata.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
You can find it in the errata section of the Compendium
Before I was replaced.... (thank you guys for that) I was playing a Donphan Yanmega deck that could disrupt well for Nats, and it was good in my opinion. I called it DonMega. The Early Judge along with Yanmega early really hurts. It could hurt you too, but I built my list around countering that as well with many hand refreshment cards.
Thats yanmegas spirit in play
rokman
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It's okay for everybody to make fun of everybody.
sar86
New Member
I love how the first reaction of so many of you when discussing Canadian players is to go to Golem/Exploud... Oh no, a rogue deck won something, the meta must be terrible!!! It's never possible that the rogue deck was build well enough to counter the meta... or is it? Like Cyrus said, Exploud EX had good matchups against Speed Spread and Flygon decks. ZPS (not rogue, but is considered to be lower tier) has an awesome matchup against Yanmega (which flooded top cut because MagneBoar failed for the most part).
At US nats 2008, a Torterra deck came third in a format completely dominated by PLOX. Does that mean that none of you knew how to build/play PLOX properly? NO! It means a player was skilled enough to create and play a deck that was able to beat the format. This is no different. Edward played a deck that ran through Yanmega this year, and Geneses played a deck that ran through Flygon & Speed Spread in 2007. Rogue decks can be successful, that's why people play them. Deal with it!
At US nats 2008, a Torterra deck came third in a format completely dominated by PLOX. Does that mean that none of you knew how to build/play PLOX properly? NO! It means a player was skilled enough to create and play a deck that was able to beat the format. This is no different. Edward played a deck that ran through Yanmega this year, and Geneses played a deck that ran through Flygon & Speed Spread in 2007. Rogue decks can be successful, that's why people play them. Deal with it!
grassmaster239
Active Member
Just look at the potential this thing shows...
http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=49854
P_A
Active Member
Hey no one expected Beedrill to do well either until Silvestro
won with it. Gyarados wasn't really all that popular in the States until it won in Europe. IIRC, Geneses won Canadian Nats that year by donking his opponent, using self destruct. You can't fault him for knowing the metagame well enough to find a deck that worked.
Wailord Master
New Member
IMHO I think a lot of people will disregard the results of Canadian Nats because:
1. The majority of Americans posting say they will.
2. The people who have no experience with X deck that did well at Canada then try to build it in 5ish days and try to learn how to play it in that amount of time will probably end up with a clunky version not capable of making it through 9 rounds of Swiss/Top 128.
1. The majority of Americans posting say they will.
2. The people who have no experience with X deck that did well at Canada then try to build it in 5ish days and try to learn how to play it in that amount of time will probably end up with a clunky version not capable of making it through 9 rounds of Swiss/Top 128.
Pajamas
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It is an inferior deck, but that's not a knock against the player unless he's explicitly claiming it's the BDIF. Maybe he only played it because Shaymin is his favorite Pokemon. In my mind, it parallels the results of Germany's nationals last year. I haven't heard of a more surprising and impressive win than David S. accomplished with Flygon/Torterra/Nidoqueen. It was a spectacular choice for the metagame, and he is a very skillful player, but it's not a knock against him to point out that it was nowhere near BDIF.
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest there's any overarching difference in quality between American and Canadian players. Anyone who claims otherwise is, frankly, part of the reason people hate America. That being said, the difference in quantity is huge, and will always skew the results. This year's Canadian nationals had a cutoff of 5-2, and a top 16. U.S. nationals is likely to have a cutoff of 6-3, and a top 128. It is orders of magnitude harder to hit lucky matchups and flips through six Swiss rounds and seven straight 2-of-3 matches than five Swiss rounds and four 2-of-3 matches. There's nothing to indicate that's what happened, but the point is that the numbers allow the game to work differently there than here, and the results will reflect that to some extent.
And this is why I think US Nationals will be different.
But just because the metagame is different doesn't mean you can entirely dismiss Canadian results. It showed me that Yanmega was a lot more capable than I had originally thought.
SaiaSandstorm
New Member
There are some good players in Canada and they were probably in the dark like us, there is not really a set meta right now, so they did what any other players would do and experiment with deck lists. Yes, DonChamp and MagneBoar are everywhere on the boards and such but I wouldn't simply give up to the hype and use them. From my testing they are actually a tad overrated. Plus, in general I don't think Canadian Nationals has ever actually affected US Nationals in the least bit. Sure, mindless players with no creativity will use ZPS and attempt to win US Nationals (probably fail) but at this point anything is possible for US Nationals and there are many options available.
Instead of worrying about other people, use the card pool wisely, get creative and test against decks people have been talking about using so that you have an idea of how well it might do.
Instead of worrying about other people, use the card pool wisely, get creative and test against decks people have been talking about using so that you have an idea of how well it might do.
I hate ignorant people saying ZPS is a "bad deck," which is a matter of opinion. ZPS is similar to any other "Turn Two" style deck we've had in the past, which has a strong donk ability, opens fast and hits hard, but has an extremely weak middle and late game. That doesn't mean a player with a fast build who runs well cannot pilot that deck to win a state, regionals, or nationals, they just need to run good, avoid unfavorable matchups, and hope to squeak out an early win against the bad matchups they do face.
The Dark Toxicroak
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Zekrom won because MEw.dec DESTROYED all the magnezone emboars and there wasn't actually much. There was lots of emboar and resh and emboar and blank. But very little Magnezone emboar. In fact lots of locals had to ask me what magnezone did.
It helped that ALMOST ALL the top players in Canada were playing X with Yanmega because it thrashed Emboar magnezone.
It was a great metagame call. All he had standing in his way was that one Donphan deck and he managed to beat it due to playing defenders and just generally outplaying him. It is no different then the random cursegar winning in the field of plox last year....
Honestly anyone planning to play Magnezone Emboar better hope they don't run into the mew deck because it is the closest thing Emboar has to an auto loss.
I forgot to leave out the part Zekrom doesn't care who goes first and doesn't ever get baby donked. At least not that version which helped a lot im sure.
It helped that ALMOST ALL the top players in Canada were playing X with Yanmega because it thrashed Emboar magnezone.
It was a great metagame call. All he had standing in his way was that one Donphan deck and he managed to beat it due to playing defenders and just generally outplaying him. It is no different then the random cursegar winning in the field of plox last year....
Honestly anyone planning to play Magnezone Emboar better hope they don't run into the mew deck because it is the closest thing Emboar has to an auto loss.
I forgot to leave out the part Zekrom doesn't care who goes first and doesn't ever get baby donked. At least not that version which helped a lot im sure.
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