Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Lets talk about the bans people put on the Pokemon games

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vaporeon said:
I play using those rules too, not made up ones. Whatever the game Pokemon the game says you can't use. Why is Spinda banned?

The I won't play Legend is not a rule, not all Legendaries are powerful like Mewtwo so they are okay to be used.
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i thought you were totally against people banning any uber whatsoever :confused:
 
Oh no. I like the rules the game has because they are fair. Not only Mewtwo and others are Ubers because things like Tyranitar, Dragonite, Metagross, and other Uber as well, just not Legends, so if people was to use Ubers, let them. They are ban in the game because the computers does not put a strategy against them like a human player would and the always lose.
 
I wouldn't ban anything but legendary Pokemon, everything is beatable. Banning moves is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard of!
 
Why does everyone say no to legendary Pokemon When the trios are no stronger the regular Pokemon. I use Legendary Pokemon ant they are Ubers.
 
Bolt said:
I wouldn't ban anything but legendary Pokemon, everything is beatable. Banning moves is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard of!
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Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think that you're wrong in that aspect, but that's just me. As for my usual personal rules, I use all the same ones that Marril uses (thank you Vaporeon for that quote), with the addition of a Legendary ban, as I like to see some interesting teams that use a variety of different pokemon. I also prefer the non-use of moves such as Double Team, for the reasons stated before as well as this new one that occurred to me last night:

Moves such as Screech or Agility are very usefull attacks, as they give you the added benefit of additional power. The price, however, is that your opponent essentially gets a free shot at you. Defense and Special Defense raising moves or Attack/Special Attack lowering moves have an additional benefit of weakening the attack if that pokemon happens to be faster, but the pokemon still takes damage. However, accuracy and evasion altering moves such as Double Team and Sand Attack not only alter stats, changing the effect of attacks in the long run, but if used by a faster pokemon, an evasion raising/accuracy lowering move takes away that negative side effect, giving you a powerful effect with no negative side effects. It's the same reason that there is no attack like thunder Wave for freezing, and why Sing is so inaccurate. Sleep and Freeze are powerful effects, but you can't just use them directly without risking negative side effects (Sing misses, wasted turn).

That has become my main arguing point against DT, as well as other evasion raising and accuracy lowering moves like Sand Attack. However, Evasion lowering and accuracy raising moves are no problem, as they do not infringe upon this rule. So, my regular rules are:

Species Clause
Item Clause
Suicide Clause (my personal name for it)
Sleep Clause (I don't have a Freeze Clause as Freeze is not an actively controllable effect)
Legendary Clause (Wobbuffet included)
Accuracy Lowering/Evasion Raising Clause (Inactive effects such as that of Muddy Water not counted)

Edit: Vaporeon, those of us who ban Legendaries ban them because we dislike facing the same pokemon over and over. It's more interesting to battle different 6-Pokemon combinations of 454 pokemon as opposed to combinations of 39 Pokemon. Thats all. I'd even go so far as to allow one Legendary in your team, as long as the rest are creative.
 
Well I use Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, Latias and Latios because I like them. I would use others but they are Ubere and not allowed. The trios I don't like to consider legendary because of their lacking "true" legendary Pokemon stats and are playable against other Pokemon without an advantage or disadvantage. So they are just as normal. You could allow 1 Uber on a team anf that would be fine but just 1 Legendary is just wrong.
 
vaporeon said:
Well I use Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, Latias and Latios because I like them. I would use others but they are Ubere and not allowed. The trios I don't like to consider legendary because of their lacking "true" legendary Pokemon stats and are playable against other Pokemon without an advantage or disadvantage. So they are just as normal. You could allow 1 Uber on a team anf that would be fine but just 1 Legendary is just wrong.
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Your opinion on my rules. Guess what. Not relevant. You think one uber is fine and just one Legendary isn't, but that keeps it interesting. If I've said it once I've said it twenty times, everyone is entitled to their opinion and no one is entitled to change it unless it's something that has actual relevance to the world or your own life, like a presidential election or the decision to join the army. Last I checked the rules of a video game did not decide that.

As for the Pixies, they're Legendary status is due to the fact that they are Pokemon important to the story of the game, and that they are one of a kind. They are also, according to the lore of the game, the first generation of Arceus' children, along with Mew (who has to have been first generation being the mother of all pokemon), and the first three generations or so of Arceus' Children are considered to be Legendary, just as the first generations of Ra's children where the gods. I agree with you that they wouldn't have much of an advantage, but they are still considered Legendary, and if you allow just three Legendaries you'll have to allow more and more, until the entire purpose is defeated. No, a Legendary is not determined by stats, only Ubers are. One Legendary is perfectly fine in my eyes.
 
Standard Legendaries are allowed and Ubers aren't. It should not be up to the players to make up the rule because everyone has there own view on what should be allow and what should not. Nintendo did away with the Ubers in the games because they were way too broken and that was why you could not use them in the in-game tournaments. If they saw a problem with this (non-Uber Legendaries, Evasion mods, OHKO, Hex Items ) they would have done something about it, just like the Ubers. So just saying only one non-Uber Legend on a team is just like saying only one Sweeper one a team.
 
marrils rules are pretty standard by far
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I've seen some pretty creative takeoffs, like Sleep and Freeze Clauses being combined (i.e. can't have one Pokémon asleep and another frozen), or can't use two Explosions per fight, or whatnot.
 
Apparently we didn't need to wait long. Here's what Carl, the second post in the thread said:
There is no official word on anything. Smogon's ruleset is based on previous generation standard rules and what the core community feels is overpowered. Just because Smogon says something doesn't mean it has to be followed by the whole internet and it's only in place for the benefit of our users here. It is mainly there as a guideline for people running tournaments and as something two people can use to make setting rules for their battles easier. It's much simpler to say "Standard Smogon Rules" rather than list off every single ban/clause. With the release of competitor the standard rules will be used as the mainstream on our server but it won't necessarily be required just as it was on NB. Probably only species and sleep clause will actually be locked in along with some sort of battle timeout function. Assuming there's other servers they can do as they wish just like it was with NB.

As far as I know there hasn't been a mainstream effort to allow and/or ban OHKOs or DT on shoddy battle or anything else for that matter. I tend to only battle people I know there so I've always played with Sleep/Species implied and kind of shrugged everything else off if I have run into it. I personally don't use DT or OHKOs but that's just my preference. They always tend to fail for me anyway.

You can't really enforce WiFi for the DS at all but considering you need friend code to battle you should be able to iron out what the rules are for each specific battle. I don't think any one set of rules will be implied when you battle on WiFi.
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That's a good start (and a good starting point to resume discussion better than that arguing through the last page), but hopefully I'll get more (like specific information).
 
vaporeon said:
Standard Legendaries are allowed and Ubers aren't. It should not be up to the players to make up the rule because everyone has there own view on what should be allow and what should not.
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That's exactly why that rule should be up to the players. Not worldwide, enforced by everyone, but that's one of the main points for starting your own tournaments.

vaporeon said:
Nintendo did away with the Ubers in the games because they were way too broken and that was why you could not use them in the in-game tournaments. If they saw a problem with this (non-Uber Legendaries, Evasion mods, OHKO, Hex Items ) they would have done something about it, just like the Ubers.
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And you'll have to excuse me for repeating myself for the hundreth time for repeating myself , but brokenness is not why I ban pokemon, although that is the reason I ban Evasion mods and Hex Items (I've given up on OHKOs, they are inaccurate enough to be forgiven). I ban Legendaries to see some interesting mixures and combinations of ordinary pokemon in teams, hence why I ban the Pixies as well. When I allow people to use teams of all Legendaries, I get teams of the same pokemon facing off against each other. If it weren't for that, I would welcome the challenge of Legendaries with open arms. It's always fun to have a challenge. But I'd even go so far as to allow one Uber per team if that would make the general population happy. I won't go any farther though.

vaporeon said:
So just saying only one non-Uber Legend on a team is just like saying only one Sweeper one a team.
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No, saying only one Legend on a team is like saying "show me what you can do with just one Legend and a mixture of five others." And personally, I prefer only having one Sweeper on my team. True, it is one of the most potent combinations, speed and attack, cause you can take an enemy out before they have a chance to blink. However, you get an opponent with high defense, miss a couple of times and he loads up with defense mods, you screwed bro. That's why I employ a good mixture of Tanks, Sweepers, and I even have a Wall for stalling. I only have one rule about what pokemon you use (two if you count the species clause) and that's that you get creative with your team. That rule is expressed int eh form of my "Legendary Clause," one Legendary on your team at a time.
 
More good replies, but something very interesting about OHKO's was posted (by the same Carl as before):
Many of the pokemon that learn OHKOs actually learn super effective attacks that hit a majority of the Sturdy pokemon anyway.

The following pokemon have at least the Sturdy ability according to marriland:
Golem
Magneton
Sudowoodo
Forretress
Steelix
Shuckle
Skarmory
Donphan
Aggron
Bastiodon
Magnezone
Probopass

That's a whopping 12 pokemon you're claiming get better if OHKOs aren't banned. Really all I have to say is "Lapras" and your argument is shot but I'll be more thorough. First I say we remove Magneton and Magnezone from this list since quite honestly you're more likely to want to rid yourself of Skarm and go with Magnet Pull (but you can factor them anyway it won't make much difference). This drops the number to ten. 70% of those 10 pokemon are immune to Fissure but are also weak to Ground which almost all Fissure users can also learn! Of the pokemon that learn Sheer Cold more than half can learn Surf which is super effective against a majority of that above list and will still dent anything else on there because if you notice none of those pokemon are special defense tanks. Horn Drill users also have either Surf or Earthquake at their disposal. Oddly enough so do all Guillotine users. Turns out there's only a select few pokemon that can use Fire attacks and OHKOs so it looks like your best bet for a Sturdy pokemon are Skarmory who hey is already overused anyway or Forretress who isn't strong enough offensively to effectively threaten anything and be an official counter. And isn't it weird that another pokemon on that list up there (Magnezone/Magneton) can be used to simply trap and remove Skarmory and/or Forretress from play.

My main point with this is that abilities are great and can be useful but in the end it's stats/typing/movepool that are more important and define a pokemon's use. If OHKO pokemon are allowed you won't see a rise in a majority of usage in those pokemon up there because they're either already common enough, doing something else using a second ability or they are completely outclassed by another pokemon of same typing but better stats. Considering that OHKO users have 3 other moves for options, Sturdy pokemon can't even effectively counter them properly since any smart player will know which pokemon have the trait and use moves to beat them. You're better off countering OHKOs based on their typing or by using Substitute and hoping luck is in your favor.
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Very interesting. Any thoughts over here?
 
Well I don't see why they would ban OHKO's anyway reading that. I like OKHO attacks because they can get you out of anything that you cant kill ( My Articuno against a wall with it's low attack stats). See, I abuse Double Team and OHKO's regardless of what others say and I am still a good player.
 
the reason people "ban" double team and other evasion raising moves is becuase they dont want every single game to take 30+mins. Evasion Raising moves bore the games =/.
 
I don't think it bores the game. Some Pokemon were meant to have it and others weren't even though every Pokemon can learn it. It is a good move and there is no proof the it disrupts the metagame other then back in the RBY world a Chansey with Minimize was broken because Swift was the only attack that never miss. If a match takes 30 mins, oh well, just have counters for it just like you have counters for every thing else.
 
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