StormFront
New Member
Rayquaza EX won't be anything like a 100$ card. It won't be as all conquering as Mewtwo is now or Luxray was. It has the potential, but it won't be as consistent or splashable as some currently believe.
Ban Mewtwo EX?
- Thread starter Poke Trainer J
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CFOURCOLTSFAN
Active Member
Srsly?
Like Mewtwo is an insane card but let's be honest once we get Darkrai EX/Rayquaza EX even Mew EX(to an extent) mewtwo loses his grip on the format and if you want to ban mewtwo let's just ban catcher and collector too. this card is really good but you can beat it(some decks atm are focused on just 2HKOing it anyways) and once the next set rolls around mewtwo won't be the centralizing card that it is right now.
no reason to ban this card.
just really none other than the price tag, which compared to ANY other TCG is cheap.
advice = play straight terrakion or wait for darkrai
no need to ban this card
Like Mewtwo is an insane card but let's be honest once we get Darkrai EX/Rayquaza EX even Mew EX(to an extent) mewtwo loses his grip on the format and if you want to ban mewtwo let's just ban catcher and collector too. this card is really good but you can beat it(some decks atm are focused on just 2HKOing it anyways) and once the next set rolls around mewtwo won't be the centralizing card that it is right now.
no reason to ban this card.
just really none other than the price tag, which compared to ANY other TCG is cheap.
advice = play straight terrakion or wait for darkrai
no need to ban this card
I agree with CFOURCOLTSFAN, Mewtwo is insane but its not unbeatable. Catcher and collector are just as much a threat as Mewtwo is. But no one wants to ban Collector, of course not, its a staple in any deck. Once these next few sets come out, Mewtwo is going to lose its strength and fall back into balance. We just have to deal with it and continue this "Mewtwo War." I believe some people want it banned because they can't stand losing to it so easily. I find myself in the same situation sometimes. My opponent plays a Mewtwo and I know it begins, I need to be ready with my Mewtwo and be thinking about a second just in case. I'm not complaining, I'm just stating that it comes down to who can play Mewtwo EX better.
Mewtwo is a strong card but its not the source of the problems. The biggest issue is catcher imo. With catcher in format you cant play any stage 2 decks/techs anymore unless you waste too much space or your opponent draws nothing useful the whole time. Besides the RC nerf hits stage 2 techs/decks too hard.
I didnt playtest a hs-ND format without catcher but there could be some stage 2 decks which can be good in a heavy mewtwo metagame.
Mewtwo just utilizes catcher and the HS-on energy acceleration well enough, but without these cards mewtwo ex isnt that strong in my opinion.
I didnt playtest a hs-ND format without catcher but there could be some stage 2 decks which can be good in a heavy mewtwo metagame.
Mewtwo just utilizes catcher and the HS-on energy acceleration well enough, but without these cards mewtwo ex isnt that strong in my opinion.
jjkkl
Front Page Article Editor
Have people play MeesieMew. Problem solved.
Poke Trainer J
New Member
But Messie Mew isn't as consistent as CMT and ZekEels, and hasn't made enough wins or top cuts as much as CMT and ZekEels has.
Also I agree with what Viole said about Mewtwo EX over on PokeBeach:
Also I agree with what Viole said about Mewtwo EX over on PokeBeach:
Viole said:
Charizard3712
New Member
Do you not remember luxray lv x? That card itself ran about the same price as mewtwo ex and it hit 100 dollars at nationals and still juniors and seniors played the card. Mewtwo is not that broken as you are making of out to be.
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z-man
New Member
Accessibility and price aren't good reason to ban cards. Second-hand value is unimportant to TPCi. A Mewtwo delta from a while ago once sold for a million dollars on ebay. Did TPCi care? NOPE. While that was a joke, it shows that people can value cards at whatever they want. Supply and demand works very well. Bad cards are not in demand, so they don't sell. Good cards will naturally gain value and REALLY good cards will naturally be at the top of the food chain. The value of mewtwo EX has stabilized at about $55 for now, but people have shown that they will be willing to pay more for it. Your argument would be more effective if you wish to make good cards common and bad cards rare. TPCi isn't responsible for the value of cards. The players themselves are responsible for the value of cards. If we weren't willing to pay that much for a Mewtwo EX, it wouldn't have escalated so much in value. I feel bad for kids who want to compete, but can't afford it, but Mewtwo EX isn't the be-all-end-all of Pokemon cards. Decks without mewtwo have won States... especially in Juniors and Seniors, you do not need mewtwo EX to be successful. Please avoid the "too expensive" argument if you really want Mewtwo EX to be banned.
Mewtwo EX is VERY good, but it is not overpowered. There are still non-Mewtwo decks that win and, aside from CMT (a mewtwo deck), there are no decks that NEED mewtwo. If you want to prove to us that Mewtwo should be banned, show us how it is overpowered...
Mewtwo EX is VERY good, but it is not overpowered. There are still non-Mewtwo decks that win and, aside from CMT (a mewtwo deck), there are no decks that NEED mewtwo. If you want to prove to us that Mewtwo should be banned, show us how it is overpowered...
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This is why people need to stop thinking that Mewtwo EX is a good Mewtwo EX counter. By definition, something cannot truly counter itself. Sure, it can keep it in check. After all Mewtwo DOES do a good job of getting other Mewtwos with lots of energy off of the field quickly. However, it's still open to other Mewtwos. In other words, for a counter to be successful, it must not only be able to KO Mewtwos but also be able to deal with other Mewtwos KOing it. Since Mewtwo is equal to itself, it cannot ever prevent that from happening (without the use of some other card, say Leavanny, but then Leavanny is really counter). You can't say you've countered something if that very thing comes back to counter your counter. See what I'm saying? Mewtwo countering Mewtwo doesn't make sense.
I encourage people to think about real, successful Mewtwo counters before complaining about Mewtwo. If you have a good one, then I don't really think you have to have Mewtwos of your own in your deck just to keep other Mewtwos in check. For example, Mew does a very good job of countering Mewtwo. It can OHKO it easily and doesn't really care about revenge kills because it ultimately wins out in prizes (or if Mew + Vanilluxe/Unfezant flips good, it often won't give up any prizes at all).
Unfortunately, Mew doesn't work in just any deck. It's a good card to be sure, but Mew isn't a splashable Mewtwo counter, you pretty much would need to run a Mew deck. I think the real problem we have with Mewtwo right now is that TPCI never printed a really good Mewtwo counter beforehand, so now it leaves it pretty dominant. There's nothing you can put 1 or 2 copies of in your deck just to counter Mewtwo. Sigilyph looks promising in the upcoming set, but we should have these sorts of things already.
So in response to this topic, I think banning Mewtwo because it's the only counter to itself is a bad argument. We simply need a better counter. Even if we never get one, I don't believe in banning anything unless it makes the game near unplayable or unfair. Like I said, Mewtwo does keep itself in check. You're at no unfair advantage as long as you run your own. I do agree, it stresses the luck factor of the game way too much. If you go first with a Mewtwo and some other stuff (DCE, Celebi, PlusPowers, Catchers, etc etc) you're at such a huge advantage. That puts too much emphasis on the coin flip. Again, though, the problem here isn't with Mewtwo itself... rather the first turn rules and never being able to really punish it. So in conclusion, I think there's better alternatives to solving the Mewtwo problem than banning the card.
banning mewtwo ex is pretty dumb.as broken as it is and the value of it not worth banning yes people put it in decks that don't need it but when the later ex's come to play mewtwo will just be those forgotten cards of ex's.rayquaza ex I see more deadly than mewtwo so thats the new problem and mew ex's its like hello there mewtwo and goodbye.
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
I was at a tournament last weekend where the top 3 Junior decks has 8 Mewtwo between them. Now I don't know how 2 of them got their cards, but the Junior who I do know got his Mewtwos by pulling them from packs and trading. Before he had his own playset, he borrowed from a friend. Neither he nor his parents spent a single penny on eBay.
So stop pretending that the only way to get these cards is to spend the $60. That's ridiculous and untrue. If a Junior can do it . . . yeah?
TPCI does NOT control the secondary market, and it is silly to expect them to ban cards in response to it. What happens when Darkrai or Rayquaza get expensive? Should they ban those as soon as they are released too? How about when Mewtwo's price falls . . . can it come back then?
Should they start banning and unbanning cards on a weekly basis according to eBay completed auctions?
Maybe you think Mewtwo is a special case? It isn't. This same argument has been played out so many times before.
psychup2034
New Member
One of my cousins plays baseball in little league. He needs new cleats every so often (high quality cleats get into the hundreds), he needs to buy home and road uniforms from the team, as well as travel money. He trains by using different weights on bats, and buys a lot of equipment (new batting gloves and new fielding gloves every year since he's still growing). All in all, it costs thousands of dollars a year just to play baseball. The entry fee to a tournament can cost $60! And that doesn't even include travel!
Those kids who play little league don't have jobs, they have no income, and to rely on their parents that much for 1 tournament is just very, VERY bad game design. If, instead, baseball stayed the same, but the cost of playing was much lower, I could agree. However, $100 (some people whose kids are really good at baseball pay even more!) for a baseball glove that must be used in every single game isn't fair to every player.
See how absolutely asinine this "it's too expensive" argument sounds when applied to just about any other hobby?
Pokemon is one of the cheapest hobbies for kids, and it also develops a lot of strategic thinking. Sometimes there's a card that costs a lot. Deal with it.
It's not about the price, it's about the accessibility of the sport. While it's impossible to make a competitive sports league where your wallet doesn't decide what type of training, equipment, and coaching you can buy, there should be of course be realizations that sometimes a threshold is crossed.
There's a place for kids to play baseball without spending too much of their parents' money. It's called the neighborhood park.
Likewise, there's a place for kids to play Pokemon without spending too much of their parents' money. It's called Pokemon league.
If you want to play competitively, you have to invest in some of the more expensive cards. Stop whining and deal with it.
Miamisportsfan45
Active Member
I really don't see Mewtwo as being a "great" card. Sure, it's a useful card on more than multiple occasions. I'm not doubting how great Mewtwo is, but personally if it weren't for the hype, it wouldn't need to be countered in the first place. People assume that because so many people are playing it and because it works in "this" kind of way that it's a necessity to play in their deck just because it's in so many others.
Reshiram, Zekrom, Durant a few EX's and several other Pokemon that have yet to either be discovered or played within the right strategy easily counter Mewtwo. How?
Well, firstly, they either discard energy following there attacks OR they only give up one prize when being KO'd. What did you expect from the release of EX's being released? It's not that they're "broken" by any means. It's that they give up two prizes. So lets make the card worth playing so that it's drawback isn't that far back from non-EX's. The fact that it's EX and seemingly broken is what makes or breaks this card. But this doesn't necessarily hurt the format by any means.
Another thing is resistances such as Durant. Yes, Durant has low HP along with the resistance... but the fact that it's a Basic Pokemon along with the fact that it can be combined with Eviolite and Special Metals make it so much more difficult. Then you want to throw in the strategy of Durant as a card? Once it's paired with the strategy it makes for a terrible matchup when you're not only milling but resisting constant damage and removing the energies and catchering to make things difficult?
When you look at it in a different light, it's really not as great as it's made out to be. It's all just a "hype" process of making Mewtwo excessively played. Some will argue that you need X amount of energy to deal X amount of damage to take Mewtwo down. But again, this is where the term "EX" comes into play to make the amount of giving up two prizes more than worth it. Not to mention, energy acceleration is existent and as long as you have methods of getting energy attached and removed, then reattached when needed I don't see the issue at all. There's numerous ways around Mewtwo EX. You just need to be creative to the point where you're thinking that the answer is simply "Mewtwo EX."
Reshiram, Zekrom, Durant a few EX's and several other Pokemon that have yet to either be discovered or played within the right strategy easily counter Mewtwo. How?
Well, firstly, they either discard energy following there attacks OR they only give up one prize when being KO'd. What did you expect from the release of EX's being released? It's not that they're "broken" by any means. It's that they give up two prizes. So lets make the card worth playing so that it's drawback isn't that far back from non-EX's. The fact that it's EX and seemingly broken is what makes or breaks this card. But this doesn't necessarily hurt the format by any means.
Another thing is resistances such as Durant. Yes, Durant has low HP along with the resistance... but the fact that it's a Basic Pokemon along with the fact that it can be combined with Eviolite and Special Metals make it so much more difficult. Then you want to throw in the strategy of Durant as a card? Once it's paired with the strategy it makes for a terrible matchup when you're not only milling but resisting constant damage and removing the energies and catchering to make things difficult?
When you look at it in a different light, it's really not as great as it's made out to be. It's all just a "hype" process of making Mewtwo excessively played. Some will argue that you need X amount of energy to deal X amount of damage to take Mewtwo down. But again, this is where the term "EX" comes into play to make the amount of giving up two prizes more than worth it. Not to mention, energy acceleration is existent and as long as you have methods of getting energy attached and removed, then reattached when needed I don't see the issue at all. There's numerous ways around Mewtwo EX. You just need to be creative to the point where you're thinking that the answer is simply "Mewtwo EX."
NoPoke
Active Member
While true , that does not mean that the situation is repeated elsewhere. In particular not in the USA which has presumably much higher attendances in its junior division. There are bound to be perception problems if not actual problems when a card required in multiples costs $50+ each. When a card is $50+ parents will find ways to justify their annoyance and you won't be able to change their view even if you give them the card . . Players do not aspire to be the best at league play so that is not a counter argument. The $50+ card barrier exists in the minds of parents. And telling parents to stop whining and deal with it is very bad marketing.
---------- Post added 04/03/2012 at 08:30 AM ----------
Durant is not a counter to Mewtwo. Durant doesn't care about the opponents deck at all. Durant much like Sabledonk and Uxie donk before is a counter to the whole game, and like those is similarly bad for the health of the game.
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Miamisportsfan45
Active Member
I'm saying that it's OVERLY hyped, not undeserving of it's hype. But in all honesty, how open-minded have we been to beating Mewtwo? People seem to think tech-ing is the only way to beat it and they end up beating themselves because of it.
I'll use Chess as an example. I love playing Chess, I love the test. I'm not saying that I'm a great player at it, but I feel that I have much better odds at winning if I manage to take there queen in a queen for queen scenario. This being said, in most cases when you take out their Mewtwo EX you're bound to lose your Mewtwo EX next making it a 2 prize loss to another 2 prize loss. Giving them the edge because by this point, you're unlikely to have yourself setup with giving the opponent a turn ahead of you in this case. I'm not saying it's undeserving of it's hype at all, I'm simply saying it's overly hyped and I have no doubt in my mind that people end up beating themselves in the process. This is why I'm saying it's not nearly as great a card as it's made out to be. Don't twist my words around or take them too lightly, I'm not arguing that it's not a great card because there's no doubt that it isn't great by anyone at all, but I'm saying it's not as great as everyone is making it seem.
Durant counters Mewtwo. It's not a card that has to necessarily worry about the opponent's deck at all because of the deck and strategy that it's played in. Needless to say, because of it's strategy, energy cost for that strategy and additional attributes, it's a clear counter to Mewtwo.
Secondly, what exactly defines what is and what isn't healthy for a game? As long as the format is competitive, strategic, and everyone has a chance to win fairly, it's a healthy game to me.
Thirdly, PTCG is not printing cards to make excessive amounts of money. Especially when everyone is paying $50+ in your example (Mewtwo in this case) to a third-party market where PTCG isn't benefiting from at all. They're not intentionally printing cards for people to excessively hype into oblivion as far as money goes honestly. Especially when they're not selling singles (at least not to my knowledge) to benefit from.
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