Envoyofduels
New Member
Junk arm says, "Hi"
Ban Mewtwo EX?
- Thread starter Poke Trainer J
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Junk arm says, "Hi"
NoPoke
Active Member
Durant is not a counter to mewtwo. Durant does not make other decks without Mewtwo more playable.
The health of the game I am concerned about is how players and parents feel about the game and does this result in greater or lesser commitment. Does it motivate players and parents to keep playing and investing or to cut and try something else? What did I see at a recent event: Vanguard sold well and pokemon did not.
TPCi does benefit from the high cost of cards on the secondary market: just look for comments about ND being sold out. I have no doubt in my mind that POP is damaged by a high secondary market cost.
---------- Post added 04/03/2012 at 11:22 AM ----------
The health of the game I am concerned about is how players and parents feel about the game and does this result in greater or lesser commitment. Does it motivate players and parents to keep playing and investing or to cut and try something else? What did I see at a recent event: Vanguard sold well and pokemon did not.
TPCi does benefit from the high cost of cards on the secondary market: just look for comments about ND being sold out. I have no doubt in my mind that POP is damaged by a high secondary market cost.
---------- Post added 04/03/2012 at 11:22 AM ----------
Junk Arm just makes Catcher worse. Junk Arm is of itself much less of a problem for the game. Catcher is not limited to disruption but is usually a prize. So if someone were to post an April Fool errata to Catcher to You take a prize then that would not be very far from the truth as it exists in tournament play.
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bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Just one note about the baseball comparison...
Your equipment does not get rotated out. It might get worn out, it might get outgrown, but it never gets rotated (until the pros at least). I've still got my bat and glove that I've had since I was 8, and both work quite well for what I'm using them for.
Your equipment does not get rotated out. It might get worn out, it might get outgrown, but it never gets rotated (until the pros at least). I've still got my bat and glove that I've had since I was 8, and both work quite well for what I'm using them for.
psychup2034
New Member
Equipment does get rotated out. Can you still comfortably fit in the glove you've had since you were 8? Can you still comfortably wear the baseball uniform you had when you were 8? Didn't think so.
A 10 year-old can't even use the same glove he/she used when he/she was 8. As a general principle, kids grow.
Also, the comparison I made was between competitive baseball play and competitive Pokemon play. Most likely, "what you're using them for" isn't competitive play. I don't see how you can competitively play with an 8 year-old's baseball equipment now that you're an adult.
jjkkl
Front Page Article Editor
You wanted an alternative. There is an alternative.
Poke Trainer J
New Member
But it's not the best alternative, the Pokemon TCG has almost become the Mewtwo TCG...
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
...:lol:
That's funny. You had me going there. For a moment there I thought you actually meant that.
Seriously though Mewtwo isn't as horrible as people make it out to be. It's annoying right now mainly because people haven't fully adjusted to how EX metas are supposed to work.
Very much this. Darkrai has a weakness to fighting pokemon, of which we have quite a few good ones. Mewtwo EX on the other hand is only weak to psychic, of which there are basically only 2 that are any good: Mewtwo EX and Mew Prime. Mew Prime, while good against Mewtwo, is bad against basically everything else; 60 HP is abysmal right now, and it will die to almost any card in the format that is any good (Donphan, Tornadus, Thundurus, Zekrom, Reshiram, ect. ect.), and it won't be able to keep up. So, essentially, there is really only one way to deal with Mewtwo EX: Mewtwo EX. As such, the price is high because every deck uses it.
Darkrai on the other hand won't be in every deck, and so it won't be worth the same at all. Mark my words.
Miamisportsfan45
Active Member
Needless to say, weakness doesn't define the metagame. Especially if people are encouraging the welcoming of additional types such as Dragon. What's next? Ice? Poison? Bug? Etc.
Sidenote, the additional types aren't needed as this is clear evidence that weakness plays a major role in our current metagame. Hopefully dragon type is only temporary.
Secondly, after both of my posts and responses quoted above, you guys are entirely missing the point of Mewtwo EX. Especially since it's playability will drop once Dark Explorers arrives. Why? Not because Darkrai EX is going to be released. But because the set as a whole is based on a darkness theme. Which typically as a type resists Mewtwo as it is. Lastly, a good majority of the cards are basic and many of these new cards are playable along with the thought of what trainers we'll be receiving as well. Darkrai will be used as a tech at best.
You guys are definitely missing the main points here...
As I just stated above, Darkrai will be best used as a tech for high retreat Pokemon in all honesty. I had the same mindset with Terrakion and other fighting Pokemon but it's up to the player to decide if the risk of losing two prizes for what they'll most likely be running as a tech is worth it or not. One more notable thing is, how much energy acceleration are we looking at for fighting type? As far as I know, you're either looking at Landorus, other type variations for the acceleration with fighting energy variations splashed in for the fit, CaKE thought variants or you're looking at a slower speed deck. Just my input on this, though.
Clearly after my opinion and response to Tash above, it goes without saying at this point that Darkrai won't be played in every deck. However, in regard to the rest of this post, I have to state that Mew Prime is terrible counter to Mewtwo but in all honesty to counter Mewtwo, you have to stop thinking along the lines of Mewtwo and other Psychic Pokemon and realize that once you knock a Mewtwo out you receive two prizes. At worst they knock your Pokemon out and take a single prize. Assuming they even take two, once you counter/revenge ko you're even on prizes. I'm not necessarily understanding why everyone is jumping to the conclusion of Mewtwo being broken. In reality, it's the mental process of it thinking it's broken that's making it look this way.
are you serious? Rather call it junkarmcatchercollectorenergy tcg because every deck runs them. Mewtwo isnt played in every deck (durant, mew, terrakion)
honestly the game isnt that good at the moment because we have the stupid 1st turn ruling, RC nerf and catcher which make Stage 2 deck nearly unplayable and energy acceleration like celebi and eelektrik.
Play some games in a format without catcher + with old candy ruling and you see that mewtwo isnt responsible for that state of the game.
Poke Trainer J
New Member
Well Ace- you have a point about the 1st Turn Rules and the Rare Candy Nerf hurting the game right now and Mewtwo EX is mainly contributing to those problems not causing them. Also the power creep from the HGSS sets has alot to do with why Mewtwo is dominating as efficiently as it is right now. In Japan's BW-On format Mewtwo EX isn't much of a problem anymore.
Durant isn't a good deck anymore especially with the existance of Heatmor in Dark Explorers, Terrakion is mainly built to dismantle half of the metagame as the other half being CMT/MTC it has difficulty countering well against. Messie Mew is just a bad deck that has a frail main attacker with 60 HP, while it's designed to beat Mewtwo EX it's other matchups are kinda skewed.
Durant isn't a good deck anymore especially with the existance of Heatmor in Dark Explorers, Terrakion is mainly built to dismantle half of the metagame as the other half being CMT/MTC it has difficulty countering well against. Messie Mew is just a bad deck that has a frail main attacker with 60 HP, while it's designed to beat Mewtwo EX it's other matchups are kinda skewed.
Otaku
Active Member
This comparison really just falls flat. There are exceptions (some cards are more vulnerable to wear and tear), but the simple fact is that TCG cards can be protected and used gently even while still being used competitively. Most sporting goods can't. Plus for the kid growing up, yes outgrowing it does happen and sometimes faster than TCG sets rotate! Even when you're an adult, you rarely stay the same size/shape the rest of your life.
Set rotation doesn't always axe a card (see Rare Candy), and even when it does, nothing stops you from still playing for fun. I don't know first hand yet, but given how hard it is for me to play baseball even now at age 30, I am thinking I'll be able to get better long term use from the Pokemon cards. After all, I'll be playing neither professionally, and baseball is even less likely to be played in a competitive-but-non-professional manner, like I can at least try to do for Pokemon.:thumb:
Oh, and about the Rare Candy errata: I find this most vexing, because Rare Candy was broken when it debuted. :nonono: The "nerfing" happened at an odd time, yes. However, this is the Pokemon TCG. A Stage 2 Pokemon is supposed to be worth the extra cards and time setting up to run. So if a Stage 2 is only worth running when you can use a card that removes part of the cost of running it, then the game balance is out of whack to begin with. If you've been playing this game for less than five years, it is an easier point to miss. TPC started overpowering basic Pokemon (and Level-Up Pokemon really did make things "odd"), and cards like Rare Candy and Broken Time-Space were required for Evolutions to compete... with overpowered, unfair cards.
If you are able to compete with someone overpowered and unfair ("broken") then... that means you're overpowered and unfair, or you only think the other cards are overpowered and unfair.
Try looking at all the cards and strategies hurt by the old Rare Candy. Instead of making Evolving Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon useful for building to their final form, they are a burden to skip as fast as possible. In order for non-Evolving Basics and Stage 1 Pokemon to compete with "insta-Stage 2" Pokemon, then they too had to be built more and more powerful... you know, power creep! :lol:
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bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
I thought the RS era rules would help the game, but they only prevented the first turn card draw.
I thought the DP era rules were too restrictive for the first turn.
If you could use EITHER Trainers or Supporters, but not both, on your first turn, it might help making the turn 1 experience more balanced.
I still like the "invisible wall" solution for the first player's first turn, but that's probably outside the scope of this discussion.
I thought the DP era rules were too restrictive for the first turn.
If you could use EITHER Trainers or Supporters, but not both, on your first turn, it might help making the turn 1 experience more balanced.
I still like the "invisible wall" solution for the first player's first turn, but that's probably outside the scope of this discussion.
Otaku
Active Member
I like the "Card designers use common sense" or the "Rules team uses common sense" approach myself. The former is simple: if we want to avoid an overly aggressive format, start making cards/combos that result in damage first turn. The latter is a little more complex: adjust the rules so that running out of Pokemon is not an automatic loss. Maybe just a turn grace period, maybe the opponent just gets to draw a prize each turn you end without a Pokemon in play, but something so that it isn't a true loss.
Mostly I lean towards the former, so we can get back to using opening Pokemon to set-up instead of tear down.
Oh, and the first option would solve a lot of problems with the current format as well. We are basically repeating the history of the Pokemon TCG now. @_@
Mostly I lean towards the former, so we can get back to using opening Pokemon to set-up instead of tear down.
Oh, and the first option would solve a lot of problems with the current format as well. We are basically repeating the history of the Pokemon TCG now. @_@
Is there anything really wrong with a quick, basic focused, aggressive format though, Otaku? I would say not; it's simply a different direction for the game. Pokemon goes in phases, where sometimes it's a fast, aggressive format like now, and other times it's a more long, drawn out format where evolutions are the focus and interesting combos, rather than high damage output, are the focus. I see no problem with either kind of format; so long as it doesn't stay that way forever, it's fun to go back and forth between different styles of play.
Miamisportsfan45
Active Member
The thing that has to be realized is that when there's a dominant card in the format such as Mewtwo EX, people are going to complain. It's when the complaints become apparent to PTCG that actions begin to be done. But until they see clear evidence through the submitted winning lists in tournaments, etc. No action will be done. This is just one of those scenarios of people complaining about a card that's played to the point that it seems broken because too many people are complaining about it and the accessibility to the card isn't quite there right now. Obviously PTCG is aware of how playable Mewtwo is, especially if it's the only Kanto EX Pokemon in the set and it's being advertised as it is by being placed as an enlarged card in it's own battle box.
The problem isn't necessarily Mewtwo EX. It lies more with the players complaining about it. Before it was Mewtwo it was "how overpowered lighting is." Terrakion's been around for a while but it's only taken off recently? So has Catcher, Lost Remover, Junk Arm, etc. C'mon guys, get a grip...
The problem isn't necessarily Mewtwo EX. It lies more with the players complaining about it. Before it was Mewtwo it was "how overpowered lighting is." Terrakion's been around for a while but it's only taken off recently? So has Catcher, Lost Remover, Junk Arm, etc. C'mon guys, get a grip...
If I've learned one thing in my short 2 years playing this game, it's that people complain about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Before Mewtwo EX it was Zekrom/Shaymin/Pachirisu, Junk Arm, Catcher, Gengar Prime, Sableye, Crobat G, Luxray GL, Machamp, Gyarados, ect. ect. ect. . .
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