Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Coins banned from IL States 2010?

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I was reading on Lafonte today that coins were banned from IL states 2010. Is that legal? I was under the impression that a coin was always legal to use.

Especially considering that the text on the card reads, "Flip a coin".


The biggest problem I see, is that some players(Like myself) are just not comfortable rolling dice. Whether it be a mind set or anything else(Perception), I just don't like dice.


Rules Document said:
17.5. Randomizers
Players are permitted to use two types of randomizers during a Pokémon TCG match: coins or
dice. Players are always permitted to use their opponent’s randomizer.

17.5.1. Coins
• Any coin released with any Pokémon TCG product from EX Ruby & Sapphire on
should be considered fair and impartial.
Click to expand...


Discuss
 
Honestly, I don't really see the rationale of using coins over dice, which I have found to be more random and easier to use. However, this is clearly intended to be up to the player, and to ban coins is infringing upon the rights given to players by the tournament rules. I can only see this as fair if they have somehow had players cheating with coins, and even then, I would hope that they consulted TPCi.
 
they were not allowed because everyone was provided with a legal randomizer(one die) for attending the event. This was to prevent cheating in all cases. no other dice or coins were allowed to be used during the event.

i find this to be quite fair actually. if someone were to roll a die or flip a coin that was not the one provided at the tournament they would have to re-roll with the legal die for the tournament. If you had trouble with it i would think that you had something dubious behind why you would question it. not that it matters since the event is over, but no one really had a problem with it as far as i can recall.
 
I believe the final decision over what randomizers are legal vs. illegal is always up to the head judge. So if Jimmy says no coins, I believe that is allowed.
 
no its a rule that if i want to use a pokemon coin that they cant tell me no unless they can prove some how that it has been tampered with. a judge in the top cut of one of my spts tried to make me roll a die and i appealed to the head judge that i was allowed to flip my coin. i especially dont like rolling dice that arent mine.
 
Yea, ive been hearing stuff about no more coins. Yet pokemon still puts coins in their blister packs and started decks.
 
I've always thought that Pokemon should be a more dice oriented game, seeing as you use dice for damage counters and most of the time as randomizers. Also it would allow for cards to have 1-6 related effects, which I always thought could be cool.
 
i do not like dice. there is too much opportunity for manipulation. the dice itself is easy to manipulate in terms of weight, density, landing spots (cards, sleeves, pads, mats all changing impact and roll), curvature of edges, and size and ease of rolling.

not only do they often roll improperly, especially larger dice, but they are clunky and often roll off the edge of tables.

another thing is that i simply like my coin. i have a little red team rocket coin, and i like it a lot. i want to flip my coin. i know i can rotate the coin more than 3 times, usually 10 times or so- whereas a dice is unpredictable and sometimes won't 'roll' at all, but skid, or roll once or twice. tedious to constantly reroll.


i definitely disagree with anyone who says a coin can be more easily manipulated than a die. burden of proof is on you at that point.
 
it's not like requiring use of a specific, furnished randomizer hasn't been done before, at worlds no less...

'mom
 
SD PokéMom said:
it's not like requiring use of a specific, furnished randomizer hasn't been done before, at worlds no less...

'mom
Click to expand...

i usually heard that, if you choose to use a coin, you may, but if you choose to use a dice, you may only used the provided one? isnt that how it worked?

basically, is this a precedent- the outright disallowing of usage of a coin?
 
I ALWAYS request that my opponets roll a die as opposed to flip a coin. I have seen to many people manipulate one of thoes plastic coins so that it flips heads. 90% of the time my opponet will agree to roll a die for the game. But once in a while they object. In that case I point out that the rule for coin flips is that it must rotate 2 1/2 times in the air before it lands to count. And I I do not agree that it flipped that many times then we will have to call over a judge to count the rotations. After explaining that no one has ever tried to use a platic coin against me in a real tournament game.
 
JandPDS said:
I ALWAYS request that my opponets roll a die as opposed to flip a coin. I have seen to many people manipulate one of thoes plastic coins so that it flips heads. 90% of the time my opponet will agree to roll a die for the game. But once in a while they object. In that case I point out that the rule for coin flips is that it must rotate 2 1/2 times in the air before it lands to count. And I I do not agree that it flipped that many times then we will have to call over a judge to count the rotations. After explaining that no one has ever tried to use a platic coin against me in a real tournament game.
Click to expand...

Rules lawyer much???? A coin is allowed. It is EASY to see if a coin rotates more than 3 times. IF you call over a judge to watch a coin flip more than once, I'm pretty sure the HJ would/should have a talk with you. Yes, a rule is a rule, but a simple explanation and then watching the flips ought to work.

Keith
 
SD PokéMom said:
it's not like requiring use of a specific, furnished randomizer hasn't been done before, at worlds no less...

'mom
Click to expand...

Yeah, Ryan nailed this one right on the head. You are ALWAYS permitted to use a coin, and are only forced to use a certain randomizer if you are NOT using a coin.

JandPDS said:
I ALWAYS request that my opponets roll a die as opposed to flip a coin. I have seen to many people manipulate one of thoes plastic coins so that it flips heads. 90% of the time my opponet will agree to roll a die for the game. But once in a while they object. In that case I point out that the rule for coin flips is that it must rotate 2 1/2 times in the air before it lands to count. And I I do not agree that it flipped that many times then we will have to call over a judge to count the rotations. After explaining that no one has ever tried to use a platic coin against me in a real tournament game.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no doubt I think that your post was a little over the top. If you think that your opponent's flip didn't go 3 times thats fine, but if your calling a judge for that more than once or twice than you are just flat out paranoid and need to calm down.
 
if you are flipping a coin PROPERLY, it is DIFFICULT to make it rotate less than 2.5 times. it should be flipped from roughly shoulder height, and if it flips whatsoever, from that height, it will usually rotate 2.5 times. especially with any technique other than literally pushing it off your finger and letting it drop.

this is not the case with dice. there is no proper technique in the rules for this (where to drop, how to drop, does it have to be cupped, can it be dropped, how large can the dice be, etc). its so easy for large dies on padded mats to simply plop and not roll. i hate asking people to re-roll when it doesnt work out, and it happens often. i like the coinflip. if they do it right, it is much easier for it to be yield good results. that cant be said with dice.
 
Wow, people use coins and they are top players??? I can't believe this...

In Canada EVERYONE uses dice only. I have never seen a "coin flipper" ever. I guess we are really out of the loop lol.
 
ryanvergel said:
i usually heard that, if you choose to use a coin, you may, but if you choose to use a dice, you may only used the provided one? isnt that how it worked?

basically, is this a precedent- the outright disallowing of usage of a coin?
Click to expand...

You are correct. That is how it worked at Worlds/Nats.
 
JandPDS said:
It is just much easier to cheat with a plastic coin then it is with a die thats all.
Click to expand...

Easier to cheat with a coin?? The japanese only put "flip a coin" on the cards!!!! They do not put "roll a die". The japanese would rather flip or play RPS.

BTW, you can always use their coin too!

Keith
 
JandPDS said:
It is just much easier to cheat with a plastic coin then it is with a die thats all.
Click to expand...

1. how? burden of proof. you can't just make some assumption and not show any evidence or argument for it. it is just easier? how do you know?
2. i can go the other way and say no, you're wrong- there is no consistency for dice other than the fact that they must be curved and clear, but reference to what they're rolled on, their size, density, etc. which all affects the roll are not addressed. there is no procedure for rolling style either, like there is for coin flipping. with less control and procedure, there seems to be more ability to 'cheat' with a die than with a coin.


i have no problem using dice if:
-it isn't rolled on a pad/mat (too easily absorbs the force and disallows adequate 'rolling' of the dice on the table itself)
-if it is small- 8x8mm is a pretty good size from my experience
-if the corners are very rounded- maybe some particular brand, but the roundedness of the dice that PUI gives out was good
-if the roll rotates at least 5 times


i think the rotations for coins should be increased to 5 as well.
 
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