Darn you Prodigal Fanboy. I want to sig this, but you've been sigged to many times as it is. :nonono:
Dialgachomp; Galactic Domination.
- Thread starter jeffrey123
- Start date
Darn you Prodigal Fanboy. I want to sig this, but you've been sigged to many times as it is. :nonono:
DIZZtheWHIZZ
New Member
There's not excuse for not running 3-1 Dialga. It's way too important.
jeffrey123
New Member
Not exactly. Machamp can get out quickly yes, but it really depends. if they get out 3 Machamp, you're in trouble, and the matchup can sway out of your control, but really, this is impractical and they 2HKO Toxicroak G with what?
Nothing Guarantees a 2HKO on Toxicroak from Machamp barring Rage and kudos to whoever gets 4 energy on a Machamp vs SP.
I don't get what you're saying. Dialga's awesome for most matchups, but it becomes a dead draw lategame, something you really don't want, especially in an overcrammed SP deck. I'd rather make the room for a VS Seeker/Drifblim FB.
DonphanAtoZ
New Member
How is a deck based on setup not going to get 3 Champs out? Even with Deafen, they can still hit you pretty hard. And on the turn you attempt to knock out the Champ with Toxi G, they can play out their trainers. Really, everyone is incredibly biased towards what deck they play.
jeffrey123
New Member
The prize exchange:
- Machamp player sends up Machamp #1, takes out Dialga G/active Pokemon.
- DialgaChomp Player sends up Toxicroak G (with Lucario GL in play). KO's active Machamp #1.
- Machamp #2 comes in, Hurricane Punches for 60 (average damage).
- Toxicroak #1 Laughs, poketurns, sends up Crobat G, retreats Crobat G, uses Cyrus' Conspiracy to grab Aaron's Collection, Psychic Energy, Energy Gain, KO's Machamp #2
- Machamp #3 comes in EXPERT BELTED (150 HP), KO's active Toxicroak with Hurricane Punch (3 heads, 25% chance)
- Aaron's Collection for Toxicroak G, psychic energy. Send up Toxicroak G, KO Machamp #3
- They hurricane Punch again, whiff (75% of whiff) and now get knocked out. If they hit heads, you bring up Uxie and take your prize.
- Laugh and sign the slip.
How do they hit me "pretty hard?" Hurricane Punch? Sure Take Out is a ig factor, but what happens when they deal nothing to Toxicroak G with Take Out? They can play all the trainer cards they want, I will be knocking out Machamp in one hit. Expert Belt? Ok, but what's the difference? They need to hit 3 heads on Hurricane punch! That's unlikely anyways, and then I can send up Uxie and KO Machamp easily. Your argument is invalid...
TheGeneral
Active Member
So against a T1 Machamp you're going to be able to get out:
Toxicroak G
Skunktank G
Lucario GL
Random Stadium
Cyrus's Conspiracy (to get the psychic/gain/aarons combo)
Collector (to obviously get all the 1-of techs you need out like croak/tank/lucario)
Possibly Azelf (if one of your 1-of techs are prized)
All T2? Consistently? Hmmm, sounds like THEORYMON TO MEEEEEEEE
Also, do you forget Machamp Lv.X has the +60? And you can't say Dialga G Lv.X is out since you said he gets taken out T1, so....1 heads on hurricane punch knocks out Toxicroak G. Your arguement is invalid...sound familiar?
jeffrey123
New Member
Well, "soon to be pokedad"
T1 Machamp is cute ya know. It's not theorymon, i've played 6 Machamp in tournaments, and what I typed was true pretty much every game. For the T1 Machamp you are forced to sacrifice prizes until you setup, which can take up to 3 turns really. You will be able to cycle through your deck for the stadium pretty easily through Uxie. Did you forget Call Energy? You run 3 in the deck, along with 2 collector. Not many Machamp Lv X decks do run Machamp Lv X, not sure where you've been the past season.
If they do run Machanp Lv X, the matchup gets a little more difficult, but you forgot that Machamp also takes more damage. You will not need more than two Toxicroak G to run through a Machamp deck. You WILL be down on prizes vs T1 Machamp, but you can get back into the game pretty easily.
I'll have you know that I played against a 2-2/4-3-4 Mewtwo Lv X/Machamp deck with Dialgachomp. Something close to this list, with no Unown G. He got out a mewtwo X T1, then 2 Machamp. And wanna know something?
Dialga came in, shutoff Mewtwo and killed it, while Machamp came in, wrecked my 4 energy dialga, then I bring up toxicroak G and I win without Lucario GL (which really isn't even necessary, but just makes the match that much easier). My lone Croak beat 2 machamps pretty easily, and thats because hurricane punch IS NOT RELIABLE. You cannot say that Machamp can beat Toxicroak G and be 100% confident that it can. You have to level up (which makes you suicude pretty much), and then deal with another one.
Have fun with no claydol as I spray your Uxie (the only draw power in the whole deck).
TheGeneral
Active Member
Well "kid who thinks he knows everything,"
What Machamp deck doesn't run Machamp Lv.X? Is your meta crap? "Uxie is your only draw power, WOW"....Pokedex, Drawer, etc. Remember those? They GET CARDS FROM THE DECK! Wow! But your theorymon ALSO will state "well I deafened, so no way." Then I say you only run 2 Dialga G, you theorymon youll be able to get it to deafen T1 every game ever, because you obviously are the best player ever. Not.
I have a pretty solid Machamp list, and would LOVE to play your current Dialgachomp list and see who wins best out of 3. Time to put your money where your mouth is instead of this pure theorymon explanation. I'll show you a real Machamp deck (unlike your 2-2 Mewtwo/Machamp decks and Machamp w/o the X hahahahaha. What a meta.)
jeffrey123
New Member
I don't think I know everything, I just know this deck and its matchups pretty well.
Supposebly Florida is the hardest state, my metagame is definately not bad. Strong language for a childrens website.
Machamp normally Uxies for 5-7. Without the Uxie, how can they burn more trainer cards? You can't one shot me and I one shot you back. I recover faster than you. I win. That's how it works. Machamp will be popular at brs, but it will die because again all of its stage 2 matchups are bad and now that it lost claydol, it relies on uxie to do nearly everything.
TheGeneral
Active Member
I'm sure parts of Florida are really hard...not the entire state. It's a big state kid.
Like I said, less talk more rock. Put your money where your mouth is and let's play the matchup best 2 of 3.
Like I said, less talk more rock. Put your money where your mouth is and let's play the matchup best 2 of 3.
jeffrey123
New Member
How are we going to play? Anyone can cheat in apprentice and redshark is a horrible program. It's not like I care if we play though, anyone can play Machamp.
The whole state of FL is hard lol, and where do you think everyone goes for states/regs?
Let's play theorymon!!! The lists:
(18)
2 Dialga G
1 Dialga G Lv X
2 Garchomp C
2 Garchomp C Lv X
1 Azelf
2 Uxie
1 Uxie Lv X
1 Ambipom G
1 Toxicroak G "Promo"
1 Toxicroak G
1 Skuntank G
1 Unown Q
1 Crobat G
1 Bronzong G
(26)
4 Cyrus Conspiracy
2 Pokemon Collector
2 Bebe's Search
1 Aaron's Collection
4 Team Galactic's Invention Poketurn
3 Team Galactic's Invention Energy Gain
2 Team Galactic's Invention Power Spray
2 Team Galactic's Invention SP Radar
2 Expert Belt
1 VS Seeker
3 Conductive Quarry
(16)
4 Sp. Metal Energy
3 Double Colorless Energy
3 Call Energy
2 Metal Energy
2 Psychic Energy
2 Warp Energy
vs
TOTAL CARDS: 60
POKEMON: 20
Level-Up: 2
1 : Uxie LV.X, LA-146
1 : Machamp LV.X, SF-98
Stage 2: 3
3 : Machamp, SF-20
Stage 1: 2
2 : Machoke, SF-41
Basic: 13
4 : Unown R, LA-77
4 : Machop, SF-64
3 : Uxie, LA-43
2 : Unown Q, MD-49
TRAINERS: 34
Trainers: 26
3 : Pokemon Communication, GS-98
2 : PlusPower, UL-80
3 : Warp Point, MD-88
4 : Poke Drawer +, SF-89
1 : Pokemon Rescue, PL-115
4 : Rare Candy, UL-82
4 : Pokedex Handy 910is, PL-114
1 : Luxury Ball, SF-86
4 : Dusk Ball, MD-80
Supporters: 5
4 : Pokemon Collector, GS-97
1 : Palmer's Contribution, SV-139
Stadiums: 3
3 : Broken Time-Space, PL-104
ENERGY: 6
Basic Energy: 6
6 : Fighting Energy, DP-128
Let's say DialgaChomp goes first with his hand:
Dialga G, psychic, egain,cyrus,call, power spray, and galactic hq.
You draw lucario GL.
Dialga G calls for skuntank/toxicroak.
Machamp has their hand as:
Machop, Rare Candy, Machamp, energy, collector,bts and unown r.
Draws a warp point.
Machop/candy/champ/energy t1. collector for 2 unown r and uxie. play their hand and uxie is met by a spray. T1 ko.
5-6
promote toxi g, draw your last spray/stadium/poison/lucario gl cyrus/ko.
5-5
at this point, its pretty unlikely this would happen with 3 call, 2 dialga G, AND 2 SPRAY. 2 SPRAYS.
machamp is easy to get out with all the draw easily. like over 50% of the time.
If Dialga G goes 2nd, it needs to get out the Dialga G/retreat with unown q or poke turn, have the gain and energy. pretty unlikely to get all those cards especially with 16 energy. About half the deck will have cards that aren't going to help get T1 deafen.
Machamp has about 10 or so cards that will not get T1 machamp.
I think we can say Machamp has a pretty favourable matchup vs DialgaChomp, but DialgaChomp has a good matchup vs everything else.
Agreed?
(18)
2 Dialga G
1 Dialga G Lv X
2 Garchomp C
2 Garchomp C Lv X
1 Azelf
2 Uxie
1 Uxie Lv X
1 Ambipom G
1 Toxicroak G "Promo"
1 Toxicroak G
1 Skuntank G
1 Unown Q
1 Crobat G
1 Bronzong G
(26)
4 Cyrus Conspiracy
2 Pokemon Collector
2 Bebe's Search
1 Aaron's Collection
4 Team Galactic's Invention Poketurn
3 Team Galactic's Invention Energy Gain
2 Team Galactic's Invention Power Spray
2 Team Galactic's Invention SP Radar
2 Expert Belt
1 VS Seeker
3 Conductive Quarry
(16)
4 Sp. Metal Energy
3 Double Colorless Energy
3 Call Energy
2 Metal Energy
2 Psychic Energy
2 Warp Energy
vs
TOTAL CARDS: 60
POKEMON: 20
Level-Up: 2
1 : Uxie LV.X, LA-146
1 : Machamp LV.X, SF-98
Stage 2: 3
3 : Machamp, SF-20
Stage 1: 2
2 : Machoke, SF-41
Basic: 13
4 : Unown R, LA-77
4 : Machop, SF-64
3 : Uxie, LA-43
2 : Unown Q, MD-49
TRAINERS: 34
Trainers: 26
3 : Pokemon Communication, GS-98
2 : PlusPower, UL-80
3 : Warp Point, MD-88
4 : Poke Drawer +, SF-89
1 : Pokemon Rescue, PL-115
4 : Rare Candy, UL-82
4 : Pokedex Handy 910is, PL-114
1 : Luxury Ball, SF-86
4 : Dusk Ball, MD-80
Supporters: 5
4 : Pokemon Collector, GS-97
1 : Palmer's Contribution, SV-139
Stadiums: 3
3 : Broken Time-Space, PL-104
ENERGY: 6
Basic Energy: 6
6 : Fighting Energy, DP-128
Let's say DialgaChomp goes first with his hand:
Dialga G, psychic, egain,cyrus,call, power spray, and galactic hq.
You draw lucario GL.
Dialga G calls for skuntank/toxicroak.
Machamp has their hand as:
Machop, Rare Candy, Machamp, energy, collector,bts and unown r.
Draws a warp point.
Machop/candy/champ/energy t1. collector for 2 unown r and uxie. play their hand and uxie is met by a spray. T1 ko.
5-6
promote toxi g, draw your last spray/stadium/poison/lucario gl cyrus/ko.
5-5
at this point, its pretty unlikely this would happen with 3 call, 2 dialga G, AND 2 SPRAY. 2 SPRAYS.
machamp is easy to get out with all the draw easily. like over 50% of the time.
If Dialga G goes 2nd, it needs to get out the Dialga G/retreat with unown q or poke turn, have the gain and energy. pretty unlikely to get all those cards especially with 16 energy. About half the deck will have cards that aren't going to help get T1 deafen.
Machamp has about 10 or so cards that will not get T1 machamp.
I think we can say Machamp has a pretty favourable matchup vs DialgaChomp, but DialgaChomp has a good matchup vs everything else.
Agreed?
jeffrey123
New Member
How about this: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124327&highlight=pooka
Round 6 - Machamp
I forgot this guy's name, but he was pretty cool. It seemed like he was somewhat new to the game, but I know better than to underestimate people. I opened with a good hand, but Toxicroak was my opener. I was going first, and quickly I learned what my opponent was using as he flipped over two Machops. Thankfully I topdecked a Dialga, played it down with an Energy, played down the Baltoy in hand, and passed. Of course, he plays a Pokemon Communcation for Machamp, Rare Candy, and uses Take Out on Toxicroak... *sigh* I am very discouraged at this point, and I get the feeling my day could be coming to an end. However, I do not want to go out like this, so I play on.
Looking at my hand, I decide that the only way for me to win is to Bebe for Claydol and hope to draw some good stuff. Fortunately, I draw into SP Radar for Bronzong and a Basic to sacrifice, Azelf. I use Bronzong to move the Energy off my Dialga to Bronzong (so I can move it back to Dialga next turn), attach a Metal to Dialga, then leave Azelf active to die the next turn. He uses Take Out for another KO, and now it's time to start my comeback. I play Collector for Garchomp/Garchomp/Unown G, attach the G to Dialga, Radar for Dialga LV.X, attach a second Metal, and Second Strike for 50. I'm hoping he doesn't have Machamp LV.X... and he doesn't, whew. He goes for Hurricane Punch, which gets 3/4 for 70 damage. Unfortunately, I don't find a way to heal the damage off this turn, so I have to risk it! I attach a third Metal and use Remove Lost for the KO. For whatever reason, he decides to play a Warp Point, so I gladly sacrifice my Bronzong... whew, Dialga is alive.
Now I'm in a good spot! I promote Garchomp, level up to heal off the damage, and Poke Turn it. He has two Fighting on Machamp, so I could run right into a DCE for Rage for a lot of damage if I use Remove Lost. However, thanks to my three Metals, Rage would do 80 + 60 - 30 = 110, just 10 short of a KO. So, if I get Tails for Remove Lost, I also have to avoid a PlusPower/Buck/Expert Belt for a KO. I decide I have to take the risk, and I get Tails for Remove Lost... GULP. He plays down the DCE... and announces Rage, whew! I take the 110 damage, use a DCE to retreat to Garchomp, heal off the damage, Poke Turn it, and KO Machamp with Remove Lost. Now I'm down only one prize, and things are looking good. He plays a Warp Point, so I send out Claydol in hopes of not giving up a prize. He goes 1/4 for Hurricane Punch, awesome. I blow a DCE to retreat to Dialga, and I get a Heads for Remove Lost. I feel like I'm in full control now.
Then he plays a card that makes me cringe - Pokemon Reversal. After missing the first, he nails the second and my Garchomp. However, I notice that he did not get a Machamp into play, so maybe a Power Spray on Claydol will devastate him next turn. I play down another Garchomp, attach to it, and Remove Lost for the KO. He sends out an Uxie, tries to Cosmic Power (Sprayed), and passes. I Cyrus for another Spray, attach to Garchomp, and Remove Lost for a KO. We're all tied up, folks! The nightmare T1 Machamp has turned into a favorable spot for me. I Spray the Cosmic again, then Warp Energy to Garchomp and Dragon Rush his fourth Machop, leaving one prize left to his two. He has no way to avoid a KO the next turn, and I take in a HUGE sigh of relief as I win this nerve wracking game.
Even though there's Unown G and Claydol, Machamp also has Claydol in this game, so it's even. The guy got T1 Machamp and Pooka won, read his report and you'll see how the matchup works.
Round 6 - Machamp
I forgot this guy's name, but he was pretty cool. It seemed like he was somewhat new to the game, but I know better than to underestimate people. I opened with a good hand, but Toxicroak was my opener. I was going first, and quickly I learned what my opponent was using as he flipped over two Machops. Thankfully I topdecked a Dialga, played it down with an Energy, played down the Baltoy in hand, and passed. Of course, he plays a Pokemon Communcation for Machamp, Rare Candy, and uses Take Out on Toxicroak... *sigh* I am very discouraged at this point, and I get the feeling my day could be coming to an end. However, I do not want to go out like this, so I play on.
Looking at my hand, I decide that the only way for me to win is to Bebe for Claydol and hope to draw some good stuff. Fortunately, I draw into SP Radar for Bronzong and a Basic to sacrifice, Azelf. I use Bronzong to move the Energy off my Dialga to Bronzong (so I can move it back to Dialga next turn), attach a Metal to Dialga, then leave Azelf active to die the next turn. He uses Take Out for another KO, and now it's time to start my comeback. I play Collector for Garchomp/Garchomp/Unown G, attach the G to Dialga, Radar for Dialga LV.X, attach a second Metal, and Second Strike for 50. I'm hoping he doesn't have Machamp LV.X... and he doesn't, whew. He goes for Hurricane Punch, which gets 3/4 for 70 damage. Unfortunately, I don't find a way to heal the damage off this turn, so I have to risk it! I attach a third Metal and use Remove Lost for the KO. For whatever reason, he decides to play a Warp Point, so I gladly sacrifice my Bronzong... whew, Dialga is alive.
Now I'm in a good spot! I promote Garchomp, level up to heal off the damage, and Poke Turn it. He has two Fighting on Machamp, so I could run right into a DCE for Rage for a lot of damage if I use Remove Lost. However, thanks to my three Metals, Rage would do 80 + 60 - 30 = 110, just 10 short of a KO. So, if I get Tails for Remove Lost, I also have to avoid a PlusPower/Buck/Expert Belt for a KO. I decide I have to take the risk, and I get Tails for Remove Lost... GULP. He plays down the DCE... and announces Rage, whew! I take the 110 damage, use a DCE to retreat to Garchomp, heal off the damage, Poke Turn it, and KO Machamp with Remove Lost. Now I'm down only one prize, and things are looking good. He plays a Warp Point, so I send out Claydol in hopes of not giving up a prize. He goes 1/4 for Hurricane Punch, awesome. I blow a DCE to retreat to Dialga, and I get a Heads for Remove Lost. I feel like I'm in full control now.
Then he plays a card that makes me cringe - Pokemon Reversal. After missing the first, he nails the second and my Garchomp. However, I notice that he did not get a Machamp into play, so maybe a Power Spray on Claydol will devastate him next turn. I play down another Garchomp, attach to it, and Remove Lost for the KO. He sends out an Uxie, tries to Cosmic Power (Sprayed), and passes. I Cyrus for another Spray, attach to Garchomp, and Remove Lost for a KO. We're all tied up, folks! The nightmare T1 Machamp has turned into a favorable spot for me. I Spray the Cosmic again, then Warp Energy to Garchomp and Dragon Rush his fourth Machop, leaving one prize left to his two. He has no way to avoid a KO the next turn, and I take in a HUGE sigh of relief as I win this nerve wracking game.
Even though there's Unown G and Claydol, Machamp also has Claydol in this game, so it's even. The guy got T1 Machamp and Pooka won, read his report and you'll see how the matchup works.
jeffrey123
New Member
I stated that. Machamp needs claydol more than dialga does.
Chromecatz
New Member
Dialga can most definitely beat Machamp even in MD-On. The match obviously heavily depends on who goes first/second (like everything else). Consider the dialga player going second, they have a pretty massive advantage by stopping any surprise machumps from hitting the field. Infact Deafen should incredibly hinder any new sort of machamp build considering they lack claydol and will be forced to abuse trainers/uxie, both of which can be stopped by legitimate dialga list. Now these things combined give you plenty of time to build up your toxitank defense.
If the machamp player does indeed go second then you are obviously at a greater disadvantage. T1 machamp is a pretty high risk, and when/if they hit it you obviously will be forced to sac 2/3 prizes. Toxitank/Lucario can easily even up the prizes though, especially with garchomp stopping any return thko's on your toxicroak.
While you OHKO their machamps and they fail to ko your croak it gets harder and harder for them to replace machamps without claydol and limited uxies. Even if they do manage to get lucky with their flips, recovery is so easy for your SP deck that you can just keep rolling with the OHKO's.
Overall, the match up seems pretty even and of course depends on flips from beginning to end, but with SP's disruption and ease of recovery I would rather be the one playing dialga.
If the machamp player does indeed go second then you are obviously at a greater disadvantage. T1 machamp is a pretty high risk, and when/if they hit it you obviously will be forced to sac 2/3 prizes. Toxitank/Lucario can easily even up the prizes though, especially with garchomp stopping any return thko's on your toxicroak.
While you OHKO their machamps and they fail to ko your croak it gets harder and harder for them to replace machamps without claydol and limited uxies. Even if they do manage to get lucky with their flips, recovery is so easy for your SP deck that you can just keep rolling with the OHKO's.
Overall, the match up seems pretty even and of course depends on flips from beginning to end, but with SP's disruption and ease of recovery I would rather be the one playing dialga.
Last edited:
TheGeneral
Active Member
Yeah but see, he is running a GOOD list.
C'mon dude, you're sitting there telling me it's SO easy to beat Machamp with all that theorymon, yet when I extend an honest game on RS with my Machamp list you back down saying "well, people could cheat blah blah." I have to call shenanigans and believe you do not trust your list and are not willing to actually put it to the test...if you can't prove what you theorymon constantly, then don't argue about it. Words are only words, Mr. Theorymon.
Nice article man, really. Though, I find it funny that you said your build was based on consistency and you only run 2 Dialga G, 2 collector, and 3 call. Call me crazy, but if the basis of you build was consistency, wouldn't it be more like 3 Dialga, 2 collector, 4 call?
For what it's worth, this is my main deck as well and I only run 2 Dialga G. I'm not saying 3 is bad, but I will say those that keep saying you need 3 probably don't have much experience with the deck. Nothing worse than 2 dead draws late game when you need that warp energy and you get Dialga twice. Now, that's not saying you can't be experienced and run 3, that just means if you've played the deck much AT ALL, you know that 2 or 3 is preference and really doesn't affect consistency that much.
As for the Machamp match up, I think every scenario (except Pooka's report b/c it was real) is ridiculous. So, Dialga has to go first every time? If not, what is the match up like then? If Dialga goes second and gets the lock, is it an auto loss for Machamp? Because, if a coin flip is 50/50 and the matchup depends on who wins the toss, the match up will always be 50/50. If Dialga has a bad match up by going first but has an infinitely better match up going second, then Dialga has the net advantage. Both decks are "gimmick" decks, but only one has the ability to take out the other's "gimmick," that being Toxocroak G stopping take out, it seems to me that Dialga has the better match up. Especially since Toxicroak can be Poketurned and healed, and can also be healed by Garchomp. Don't misconstrue that to mean it is any easy match up, or to say its not 50/50, but I am saying that I think the matchup analysis is fair in the article.
And, I've slept since college and didn't pay NEAR as good of attention in stats as I wish I had, but I'm pretty sure 3 coin flips is 12.5% for 3 heads.
All probably outcomes:
hhh
hht
hth
thh
htt
tht
tth
ttt
Only 1 is all heads, thus it is 1/8=12.5%
And, just to continue the longest post ever, I just looked over that Machamp list. No Bebe? I've never played Machamp, but that just doesn't seem to follow the "laws" of consistency. Probability says you won't start with a Collector, which means you won't get to use Communication. There is only a 27% chance you start with 1 in hand, 35% you start with one or top deck one. So, that means 65% of the time, this deck doesn't set up. Now, that is cheap, shoddy math that doesn't account for other ways of drawing into it (double poke drawer start, uxie, Pokedex). But, we also assumed Uxie was sprayed T1, which isn't likely only running two. But, I will say that I started with a spray in my hand 3 times in 4 matches at BR and only ran 2. Probable and consistent? No. The moral of the story is, that scenario is ridiculous and that list seems pretty easy to get around. If there is ever 1 turn where Machamp doesn't get out, Deafen shuts that list down with no Bebe. Yet, somehow, that list beat the monkey crap out of Dialga in that scenario.
For what it's worth, this is my main deck as well and I only run 2 Dialga G. I'm not saying 3 is bad, but I will say those that keep saying you need 3 probably don't have much experience with the deck. Nothing worse than 2 dead draws late game when you need that warp energy and you get Dialga twice. Now, that's not saying you can't be experienced and run 3, that just means if you've played the deck much AT ALL, you know that 2 or 3 is preference and really doesn't affect consistency that much.
As for the Machamp match up, I think every scenario (except Pooka's report b/c it was real) is ridiculous. So, Dialga has to go first every time? If not, what is the match up like then? If Dialga goes second and gets the lock, is it an auto loss for Machamp? Because, if a coin flip is 50/50 and the matchup depends on who wins the toss, the match up will always be 50/50. If Dialga has a bad match up by going first but has an infinitely better match up going second, then Dialga has the net advantage. Both decks are "gimmick" decks, but only one has the ability to take out the other's "gimmick," that being Toxocroak G stopping take out, it seems to me that Dialga has the better match up. Especially since Toxicroak can be Poketurned and healed, and can also be healed by Garchomp. Don't misconstrue that to mean it is any easy match up, or to say its not 50/50, but I am saying that I think the matchup analysis is fair in the article.
And, I've slept since college and didn't pay NEAR as good of attention in stats as I wish I had, but I'm pretty sure 3 coin flips is 12.5% for 3 heads.
All probably outcomes:
hhh
hht
hth
thh
htt
tht
tth
ttt
Only 1 is all heads, thus it is 1/8=12.5%
And, just to continue the longest post ever, I just looked over that Machamp list. No Bebe? I've never played Machamp, but that just doesn't seem to follow the "laws" of consistency. Probability says you won't start with a Collector, which means you won't get to use Communication. There is only a 27% chance you start with 1 in hand, 35% you start with one or top deck one. So, that means 65% of the time, this deck doesn't set up. Now, that is cheap, shoddy math that doesn't account for other ways of drawing into it (double poke drawer start, uxie, Pokedex). But, we also assumed Uxie was sprayed T1, which isn't likely only running two. But, I will say that I started with a spray in my hand 3 times in 4 matches at BR and only ran 2. Probable and consistent? No. The moral of the story is, that scenario is ridiculous and that list seems pretty easy to get around. If there is ever 1 turn where Machamp doesn't get out, Deafen shuts that list down with no Bebe. Yet, somehow, that list beat the monkey crap out of Dialga in that scenario.
JPN Gallade
New Member
Amazing article Kevin. Very nice article for a DialgaChomp deck. In fact, this deck has one very good deck list that can actually make it stand out very well in an MD-on season. I also mean that this is pretty much the perfect DialgaChomp list for next format. You also explained the techs and matchups very well too. In fact, I think I know now what to do against other decks using it.
Once again, great article Kevin! I really did enjoy reading this article. In fact, this article will help many players next season if they want to build a DialgaChomp deck.:thumb:
Once again, great article Kevin! I really did enjoy reading this article. In fact, this article will help many players next season if they want to build a DialgaChomp deck.:thumb: