Gyarados needs to consistently do 110 with preferrably flash bites instead of belts. While facing Luxchomp speed you often have to focus on being faster and not always getting rescue energy or seeker, and early power sprays really hurt you. Roserade Gl can cause problems too where you are too much behind to catch up. Vilegar with rescue energy just destroys you. All they have to do is take out regice so poltergiest knocks you out and combee only lasts so long under trainer lock. But if teched and played properly it can be a good deck. But definitely not unbeatable at all.
Gentlemen, how do we beat Machamp...Gyarados?
- Thread starter Skull Hatter
- Start date
i ran this and went 89-1 at cities
I don't feel this is a viable option. Gyarados is going to 2HKO you unless they want to waste bats. So why can't the Gyarados player just play down 2 Belted Gyarados?
PkmnManiac
New Member
Because a good player has 3 Karps in the Discard pile.
Physics Squirrel
Active Member
You'd be right if you weren't wrong.
This would actually effectively prevent the Infernape 4 tactic from working, and at no cost to the Gyarados player (aside from finding the Expert Belts) since he's 2HKOing either way.
I normally don't respond to these kinds of posts but this is really bugging me. What's Sabs? At first I thought it was Sableye, but if you went first you couldn't Poketurn... and your signature wouldn't make any sense.
Honchkrow SV+Gengar prime in gengar builds ends the game in one glorious cursed droplets filled turn. Maxing Gyara out at 80 effectively makes them lose their OHKO ability and there's nothing to stop you from doing it again and bringing them to a max of 50 damage. Mespirits with seeker is a pain, but I honestly feel that Gengar variants outside of Vilegar, less poltergeist dependant variants, can dominate this format.
Why dont you play Ruins of Alph if you have problems with resistance? I think Machamp has a good chance to win against gdos if ruins of alph is played. You just have to make sure that you beat Gdos with Machamp prime and decrease the number of hand cards by using lookers or judge
Vhind
New Member
I think a good "cheap man's Luxray GL Lv.X" would be Raichu GL. I know, I know; it only has 80 HP, but if you can get ahead on prizes early-game and continue one-shotting Gyarados, you'll be fine.
Try it out with Lucario GL and Gallade 4 Lv.X. It's fast, inexpensive, and simple, which resolves many issues that players face when trying to counter the top deck(s).
Besides, Honchkrow and Gengar Prime are too clunky and convoluted to set up. Also, Honchkrow rarely helps out in any other match-up. Trust me, I tried out the idea a while ago.
Try it out with Lucario GL and Gallade 4 Lv.X. It's fast, inexpensive, and simple, which resolves many issues that players face when trying to counter the top deck(s).
Besides, Honchkrow and Gengar Prime are too clunky and convoluted to set up. Also, Honchkrow rarely helps out in any other match-up. Trust me, I tried out the idea a while ago.
Physics Squirrel
Active Member
I don't know why so many people open their strategy versus Gyarados with "get ahead on prizes early game". This just doesn't happen. Gyarados is one of the fastest decks in the format.
Raichu GL is an interesting idea. Getting up to the OHKO though requires 4 Crobat drops to the bench or an early Gallade 4. If they don't have 4 bench, then you're stuck having to Flash Bite for each KO even if you do get damage on all 3 benched Pokemon. If they have only 2 bench, you're basically hosed. Also the fact that you have to add 1-1 Gallade 4 and multiple Raichus to your deck is pretty lame in any other matchup. I can definitely see it as a backup if you can't afford Luxray GL lv.X, but then again people who compromise on what to play because they can't get the cards usually do a lot less of the winning.
Raichu GL is an interesting idea. Getting up to the OHKO though requires 4 Crobat drops to the bench or an early Gallade 4. If they don't have 4 bench, then you're stuck having to Flash Bite for each KO even if you do get damage on all 3 benched Pokemon. If they have only 2 bench, you're basically hosed. Also the fact that you have to add 1-1 Gallade 4 and multiple Raichus to your deck is pretty lame in any other matchup. I can definitely see it as a backup if you can't afford Luxray GL lv.X, but then again people who compromise on what to play because they can't get the cards usually do a lot less of the winning.
I respectfully disagree. Most everyone runs uxie's and those not only occupy valued bench space, but a shadow room from gengar sets up nicely for a cursed droplets KO or two later. While not a huge help against s2 decks, riot also provides a high damage alternative attack against Sp's if you opt to run the energy.
I've dropped Gengar X from my build. It doesn't do enough against Gyara, it isn't all that great against Luxchomp and Dialgachomp is a poor matchup regardless. A 3-1 SF to prime line improves consistency and allows for a decent chance of the T2 prime to hit karps/X's/other stuff.
I also feel that the right partner is crucial. Vileplume is the most played choice, but I don't think the matchups it rewards you right now justify it as a partner, especially when it forces you to sacrifice set-up speed against Gyarados and other faster decks in the format.
And yeah, it's a copout, but I'd rather not show my list until after cities. I'll still argue theoreymon all day.
Now that Junk arm has been confirmed not to work without trainers in the discard, gyarados has been slowed a little.
Honestly if people are seeing more gdos and less sp just run uxie/shuppet donk. When they start with sableye you auto go second and can usually pull off the donk 80% of the time especially with lone sableye.
Physics Squirrel
Active Member
Uxie Donk is a cool deck, but it probably won't win if there's any Viletomb in the top cut. But yeah, vs. a Sableye start, Uxie Donk wins 100% of the time.
No one says Dusknoir? It can't outspeed Gyarados in most cases, but Night Spin should cause all kinds of problems.
It's not a hard counter, but then, Gyarados couldn't be considered a Tier 1 deck if had such a counter, and Dusknoir seems more sensible than some of the solutions others have presented.
It's not a hard counter, but then, Gyarados couldn't be considered a Tier 1 deck if had such a counter, and Dusknoir seems more sensible than some of the solutions others have presented.
Elite_4_Allen
New Member
luxchomp has massive counters, and it's just about BDIF.