Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Let's speculate about the rotation

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bullados said:
It's not Luxray that's the problem with the SP engine. It's Cyrus' Conspiracy. If that one card is taken out of the format, SP decks become a LOT less powerful. They no longer have instant access to whatever Trainer they need in any given situation, so they have to deal with the "standard" type of build. Given how bulky the rest of the SP Trainers can be without a reliable way to search for them, SP decks become around as powerful as regular decks without Cyrus around.

Also, with the loss of Azelf especially, SPs can no longer play the odds the way they've been doing. Decks will have to be built far more consistently and efficiently than they have been built recently. For a classically conceived setup or speed deck, this isn't really a problem, because they tend to overload on the essentials in the initial builds and TecH out only a few cards. SP decks, OTOH, are nothing BUT TecH. With 3-1 and 2-2 being the only possible way to run an SP deck, they become less consistent than their more classically built cousins.

Simply by losing Cyrus and Azelf, SP decks become no more powerful than any other classically built speed or setup deck.

I'd like to see a cut to PT-on with a specific card ban on Cyrus' Conspiracy. But I know that would never happen. RR-on would be ideal from my perspective as a classically inspired deckbuilder, but it would make little sense from a Block perspective.

My thought is that PT-on will be the next format.
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I actually think the card that needs to be banned or removed is Poke-turn. That is what makes for an overuse of things like "Flash Bite", "Bright Look" and "Healing Breath", not to mention the instant healing and reuse of any SP Pokemon.
 
But, if you can't search it out consistently, how many times do you think it can be used consecutively? I've got NO problems with it being used once or twice a turn. It's when you have a player use 4 Turns and 2 Bats in a single turn to OHKO their opponent twice that gets to me. Remember, Claydol and Uxie are gone in this format, so there's no consistent draw power. Which means you're relying upon topdecks to get to your TGIs. If you don't have the TGI searching ability, all those TGIs can't be used as they have been in the past. Not only that, you virtually eliminate SP Radar from the format, and Power Spray becomes virtually unstackable. Cyrus is the card that drives the SP Engine. Without it, the engine becomes FAR less useful.
 
bullados said:
But, if you can't search it out consistently, how many times do you think it can be used consecutively? I've got NO problems with it being used once or twice a turn. It's when you have a player use 4 Turns and 2 Bats in a single turn to OHKO their opponent twice that gets to me. Remember, Claydol and Uxie are gone in this format, so there's no consistent draw power. Which means you're relying upon topdecks to get to your TGIs. If you don't have the TGI searching ability, all those TGIs can't be used as they have been in the past. Not only that, you virtually eliminate SP Radar from the format, and Power Spray becomes virtually unstackable. Cyrus is the card that drives the SP Engine. Without it, the engine becomes FAR less useful.
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I see your point, It would be really interesting to see how removing Cyrus, or how removing Poke-turn would change the game. It seems to me that the big problem that SPs are causing now is the "instant healing" and the "gust of wind" ability. With Cyrus out of picture, the SP player would still be able to use "Bright Look" or "Healing Breath" up to six times a game, even if it is not consecutively.
 
I can see AR-on for the same Reason we got HP-on

It doesn't make sense.

We don't get rotations based on what the player wants. We get them based on what rotation will net Pokemon more money.
 
Absoltrainer, you act as if that is a crime. Like every other business Pokemon is out to make money. I'm sorry if I spoilt your nice little view that pokemon was out to make the world a better place, but it wasn't. And hey, they gave us DP-On this year! That was great for the game!
 
I don't like this thread turning negative. The point was to have fun anticipating what was going to change, not gripe about it. Go read the old thread, it's fascinating to a new player like me perhaps facing a similar critical rotation. Even the greed argument is nothing new, but POP acknowledges it is about marketing and cooler heads explain it's how business works.

Money aside, my interest at the beginning of this thread was trying to figure out the health of the tournament environment and whether the SP engine was too powerful. Thank you to those who contributed interesting ideas like banning Cyrus' Conspiracy or Poke-Turn as the source of said SP power.
 
I'm really want it to be RR-on. That would level the playing field with SP vs. ST2 decks. SP is just too good right now. But with no turns, sprays, cyrus, and no gains, SP would kinda suck.
 
You people do realize that the Jumpluff is one of the best decks in the game, right? And it's not an SP deck?

(And if any of you argue that it is an SP deck because it uses Crobat and Luxray and Poke Turns are desperately looking for a nonexistent argument)

Sure, Lady GaGa and Sableye are up there, but they certainly aren't decks that you by which you either play or die.
 
^Claydol and Uxie's absence would do considerable damage to Jumpluff's playability, as well as an eminent surge in fire-types due to Ninetales HS.
 
Box of Fail said:
^Claydol and Uxie's absence would do considerable damage to Jumpluff's playability, as well as an eminent surge in fire-types due to Ninetales HS.
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You could always substitute Claydol/Uxie with Sunflora HGSS. It won't be the same but it retains some kind of speed.

The one card that will "Make or Break" a lot decks is, in my opinion, NOT Cyrus's Conspiracy,but Broken Time-Space. There are so many decks that depend on it for speed and consistency, that, without it, the format would become undoubtedly slower.
 
Jumpluff is definitely not going to be as good after the rotation. The deck relies on a fast jumpluff via Claydol/Uxie. Not only that, but Fire decks will becme popular as they will be the only decks with decent drawpower (Ninetales HG:SS).
 
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I predict SP will be close to dead after the rotation. Remember their total reliance on Cyrus. Right now if they don't have one in their opening hand, the can Roseanne's or Bebe's for Uxie to draw into it. After the rotation, if they don't start with Cyrus, they are kind of screwed. Not to metion they lose a lot of their Disruption advantage after rotation. Without Claydol and Uxie, the good players will most likely play a supporter based draw engine, which isn't sprayable. Also, stage 2 decks will either be reliant on trainers (Pokegear, VS Seeker) or Spirtitomb. SP can't run Spiritomb to ruin the trainer decks, and will be hurt more by the Spiritomb start, because of the lack of ability to draw their Cyrus (you can't start with it every game with only 4).
 
Sir Bidoof said:
I predict SP will be close to dead after the rotation. Remember their total reliance on Cyrus. Right now if they don't have one in their opening hand, the can Roseanne's or Bebe's for Uxie to draw into it. After the rotation, if they don't start with Cyrus, they are kind of screwed. Not to metion they lose a lot of their Disruption advantage after rotation. Without Claydol and Uxie, the good players will most likely play a supporter based draw engine, which isn't sprayable. Also, stage 2 decks will either be reliant on trainers (Pokegear, VS Seeker) or Spirtitomb. SP can't run Spiritomb to ruin the trainer decks, and will be hurt more by the Spiritomb start, because of the lack of ability to draw their Cyrus (you can't start with it every game with only 4).
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And who is going to run Spiritomb without having Moonlight/Unown Q around?
How many decks can affort the retreat costs of Spiritomb? It will cost you an energy drop.

Adding Staraptor SP in a 2-2 line along with collectors and communications is an option for SP decks.
Oaks visit looks like another option.
Sure it's slower as before, but so are the other decks.
SP dead, I don't think so.
 
PL-On is the play.

HGSS-on would be a HUGE slap in the face to those of us that have invested 1,000s in boxes from PL - HGSS thinking this was an investment in post-rotation meta.

To have a set out for 1 year and rotate it completely out would be grounds for a PokeRiot!
 
Rogue, I'd just like to commend you on how great you are at wording things, and not putting yourself into a situation to get standoffish. Others may have posted the exact same information, except said something along the lines of 'PL-on, if it goes to hgss on they're robbing me of my money and tons of people will be P.Oed and they'd be stealing the player's money and it would just ruin everything and be a jerkish move' and maybe throw in another comment that would catch them a lot of flack. The fact you can state these things but also help keep the threads going and starting those mini-fight bantering sessions is a great skill to have, especially as a moderator. I commend you.
 
Rogue Archetype said:
PL-On is the play.

HGSS-on would be a HUGE slap in the face to those of us that have invested 1,000s in boxes from PL - HGSS thinking this was an investment in post-rotation meta.

To have a set out for 1 year and rotate it completely out would be grounds for a PokeRiot!
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I completely agree, but they have done it before..
 
Wasn't PK only in a single Modified format before it was rotated? Or did it only just feel like that?
 
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