DragonairMaster8
Active Member
You do remember correctly. However, I believe it and Banette were the only Safeguarders to ever see consistant play.
Mewtwo EX; Believe the hype
- Thread starter jeffrey123
- Start date
You do remember correctly. However, I believe it and Banette were the only Safeguarders to ever see consistant play.
for some reason
New Member
Looks like someone hasn't read the article
! Really... nobody's going to be playing straight mewtwo.Roarkiller
Member
So my buddies and me were just saying, y'know, that Mewtwo EX is powerful and all, y'know, but hey, how're you gonna load up all that energy on it for the OHKO?
Y'know?
*cough*
My group has been testing variants of Mewtwo EX for a few weeks now, ranging from turbo versions with Celebi prime, Zeel versions, even mewlock versions. The conclusion so far is that Mewtwo EX is excellent for taking cheap prizes and shutting down main attackers with energy cards on them, but as a standalone deck it fails horribly. Mewtwo EX depends so heavily on the amount of energy on the defending pokemon AND still risks being revenge-KOed by another Mewtwo EX. And four DCE can only do so much. No engine can decently power up Mewtwo to OHKO every attacker you send out, yet almost every attacker out there can equally 2HKO Mewtwo back. Not to mention the amount of resources needed to actually get that engine running.
In other words, it is excellent as a first-turn attacker or secondary attacker, but probably no more than that.
Y'know?
*cough*
My group has been testing variants of Mewtwo EX for a few weeks now, ranging from turbo versions with Celebi prime, Zeel versions, even mewlock versions. The conclusion so far is that Mewtwo EX is excellent for taking cheap prizes and shutting down main attackers with energy cards on them, but as a standalone deck it fails horribly. Mewtwo EX depends so heavily on the amount of energy on the defending pokemon AND still risks being revenge-KOed by another Mewtwo EX. And four DCE can only do so much. No engine can decently power up Mewtwo to OHKO every attacker you send out, yet almost every attacker out there can equally 2HKO Mewtwo back. Not to mention the amount of resources needed to actually get that engine running.
In other words, it is excellent as a first-turn attacker or secondary attacker, but probably no more than that.
uchiha_minato
New Member
Zoroark has a word to pokemon ex
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PhadedPhione
New Member
I see what you did there.
Mewtwo EX isn't so hot against Cobalion either. Doesn't Durant play that too?
Miamisportsfan45
Active Member
Just have to throw my 2 cents in here awhile; Mewtwo EX may be looking overpowered and extremely hyped because of the following reasons:
Thus, creating the hype. Deserves the hype though, I'm excited for it as well.
- Mewtwo EX isn't released yet.
- Mewtwo EX is currently one of the only Psychic Pokemon to attack for as heavily as it does without a Psychic attack cost.
- It's retreat cost does it a lot of justice with the level of playability it's going to receive in combination with the reprint of DCE.
- It's extremely convenient to play as a basic.
- The era of the overpowered basics has come.
- We're not aware of what new metagame decks will develop once Mewtwo EX is planned around and actually placed into our current format.
- Next format we have no idea what will be played and people aren't thinking ahead.
- Lastly, some people clearly haven't played during the last ex format that we once had and those who have are excited for it's return.
Thus, creating the hype. Deserves the hype though, I'm excited for it as well.
shiwei87tan
New Member
I'm excited the EX are back and all but I don't really like all the overpowered pokemon that was created in recent sets! Overpowered pokemon = more pokemon with higher HP to be created and more pokemon with higher HP to be created = pokemon needs to be created more overpowered to kill them and all these even more overpowered pokemon will cause more higher HP pokemon to be created in order to survive and again and again and again this cycle is going to continue til pokemon tcg crushes the game itself.. Instead of creating higher Hp and damage in multiples of 10 why don't they introduce the multiples of 5 damage and Hp instead sometimes I wonders.. In the past strong basic pokemon normally have around 100HP and now the average is a whopping 170HP.. Soon in a few more or a dozen set it's going to be 250HP for a basic if this continues and I wonder how many HP they will give wailmer and waillord if there's a reprint? 300HP? 400HP? Or 500HP?
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Miamisportsfan45
Active Member
I think they're aware of the power creep, which is why they're bringing EX back in the first place. Two prizes being given up with the HP being raised keeps it to about the same length of time for an average match.
badganondorf
New Member
The hype Mewtwo EX received took my completely by surprise and I've been mailing with my Japanese source lately as well and thankfully I can say that Mewtwo EX's overpowerness was only a one set miracle (at least in Japan). It will be very good in the next format but after the set after the Next Destinies is released, Mewtwo EX will be a bit more balanced once again.
I think that's only good news because format should be changing all the time. We'll have very interesting Regionals and States format and after that the BR and Nats format will be once again full of surprises. The only thing I hope is that Mewtwo EX's booster-get ratio won't be something like 1 per 3 boxes...
I think that's only good news because format should be changing all the time. We'll have very interesting Regionals and States format and after that the BR and Nats format will be once again full of surprises. The only thing I hope is that Mewtwo EX's booster-get ratio won't be something like 1 per 3 boxes...
shiwei87tan
New Member
When you say the next set after ND do you mean the Japanese set call dark rush? There's quite a few cards I'm saving up now for especially darkrai EX, tornadus EX as well as some of the trainers.. Empoleon from that set is going to be really good both as a tech or hitter.. Damn I hope May come sooner even though its only Jan now! Lol!
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jjkkl
Front Page Article Editor
I too await the month of May. But, being a university student, it is probably for a different reason than you.
Regis_Neo
Moderator
I am intrigued...though, is your source going by like 30 card or 60 card decks? That could be a bit of a difference...still, wondering what the set after it offers that balances Mewtwo EX, because he still looks like a pretty strong card no matter how you look at it.
Assassin_Thief
New Member
Same, but as a father to be its probably for a different reason.
I know this card is going to be big but the thing that bothers me is the way people talk about it. Like its the second coming or something.
shiwei87tan
New Member
its a 69 cards set.. not including 4 full art EX and 3 reprint.. i would love to have those golden pokemon catcher in place of gust of wind in my unlimited deck.. LOL!
all the spoiler can be found at pokebeach.com here
Otaku
Active Member
Just to be clear:
I am quoting DragonairMaster8 just because I didn't want a wall of text happening and that's the las comment from earlier. The only Safeguard user I was aware of seeing serious play was Wobbuffet (not arguing others, this was just the first and most widespread that I encountered in person and online). This was probably for two reasons:
1) It was the first, and thus everyone made sure to at least try it to see if it worked in general.
2) Second turn a fully powered, uninjured, "Evolved" Wobbuffet was a great play. The only deck that did that (or at least well) was Gardevoir/Gardevoir ex, and Wynaut was a good opener on top of that for a Psychic deck.
I don't remember but wasn't the Banette also only heavily used because of decks it fit into (in that case even more specific - I thought it was used in the decks that took advantage of some of the other spiffy Banette, including Banette ex?
Safeguard Pokemon weren't reliable since either you went around it (Warp Point, Pokemon Reversal, sniping effect, etc.) or you got your own Pokemon-ex out of the way (rarely was a Pokemon-ex the only attacker in a deck, perhaps for this very reason). I remember people trying with some later ones, and if you already were using a different version of that Pokemon in your deck getting one to TecH in was great. Of the remaining Pokemon-ex I think only Dustox ex got some hype as a Pokemon-ex with Safeguard, but I don't remember it being capable of sustaining a deck.
Bringing this back to Mewtwo EX, let me point out that Safeguard Pokemon were a major annoyance for Pokemon-ex, but not a game ender. I hope to see them return but don't mistake them for a silver bullet... just like Pokemon-EX aren't either. I am hoping for a beefed up Desert Ruins myself. If they ported it straight away it'd just be easier for most decks to run an extra PlusPower (which wasn't an option when Desert Ruins was legal, and what was couldn't be stacked with itself). One that placed two damage counters per turn, even if they upped the minimum HP requirement to as much as 150 would probably be great.
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shiwei87tan
New Member
i think a new Desert Ruins might be good but not safeguard as non pokemon EX are quite strong enough to 2HKO to 3HKO pokemon EX anyway in recent sets..
RogueListers
New Member
Weezing, RDL, Cobalion, Regigigas EX, Yanmega Prime, Chandelure (arguably)
GG Mewtwo
You have a point though. Mewtwo isn't his own deck, but a tech/extra attacker. He is to post-ND what the Digimon are right now: Cards used just as much for their CC first attack as they are for their second, technically better attack
GG Mewtwo
You have a point though. Mewtwo isn't his own deck, but a tech/extra attacker. He is to post-ND what the Digimon are right now: Cards used just as much for their CC first attack as they are for their second, technically better attack
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Weezing is a stage 1 Pokemon, and is rather difficult to fit into a deck (trust me I tried it back when trying to find a reliable counter to Gothitelle, and it just doesn't work)
RDL is too difficult to play, and Magnezone OHKO's it just fine on its own in most cases.
Cobalion is a decent card too counter with, but is difficult to tech outside of its normal decks
Regigigas EX...I don't really see where you're coming from, it takes 100 from X-Ball when it has three energy, and takes more when it uses it's first attack (depending), and it's second attack means it would be open to a revenge kill
Yanmega Prime? Sure it doesn't need energy to attack, but if it's solo Mewtwo it can likely use Psydrive for OHKO
Chandelure takes too many energy and doesn't do enough to effectively KO Mewtwo.
Otaku
Active Member
I am still waiting to decide on Weezing. The previous Pokemon-ex killer (and eventually everything near killer) Weezing always needed a combo for the fatal blow. This easiest against Pokemon-ex that met the criteria to trigger Desert Ruins. The important thing to remember is that the Weezing weren't general counters, but a counter-deck: strongest against Pokemon-ex, and fairly strong against Stage 2 decks relying heavily on Pokemon Powers/Bodies (depending on the exact Liability build).
Pokemon really aren't supposed to be "TecH" anyway (the old definition for the term was if it attacks, it isn't TecH), and even though I have since "gone with the crowd" and started using TecH to refer to Pokemon (even attackers) as well, it still only refers to one or two cards. If you can TecH a Stage 2, it means you have plenty of Rare Candy/Junk Arm and are only including one of the Basic and one of the Stage 2. If you run 2-0-2, it is too many cards to be TecH.
Getting us to Weezing. I doubt a 1-1 Weezing line would be reliable in the current format. I regularly needed to open with two Koffing in past formats running Liability. You know, when I was playing a deck designed to give up Prizes and the only reliable "Gust" style card was Pow! Hand Extension.
Now if this boils down to TheRolesWePlay and I using the term "TecH" differently, okay. If you have a deck that can handle the self-KOing, the current Weezing might have made a decent anti-Psychic counter-line (if your own deck was Psychic) or Splash (if your deck was not Psychic), but you'd need to run at least a 2-2 line, and probably a 3-3.
If you don't take a lead in Prizes (with either Weezing), you need to be hurting the opponent's resources bad. Against something like Gothitelle, a good player I am should have a spare... so you'd have to set-up to take at least two down rapid-fire. Sadly I don't see how Weezing can do that without being the focus of the deck. There is a fall back option, but you need to be hitting something critical (and since almost everything in this format can Pokemon Catcher out something strong most decks have spares). So the final route for a self-KOing deck is to make sure you're hugely up in resources, usually by making sure that Weezing is taking down something with a lot more Energy, and preferably a fellow Evolution. Right now that does sound unlikely. >_<
So getting back on topic, I am still not writing off Weezing yet. Future cards might provide a proper "I can't believe your deck is built around that combo!" partner, but I do know it is not a general splash or TecH counter for Mewtwo EX. If I said that earlier in the thread or elsewhere... either that was very early on or I just really dropped the ball. >.> Liability Weezing countered so many things in its own grouping of decks, and by their nature a good player had to be careful not to rely on a bunch of stuff a Liability player would take down hard and fast.
Pokemon really aren't supposed to be "TecH" anyway (the old definition for the term was if it attacks, it isn't TecH), and even though I have since "gone with the crowd" and started using TecH to refer to Pokemon (even attackers) as well, it still only refers to one or two cards. If you can TecH a Stage 2, it means you have plenty of Rare Candy/Junk Arm and are only including one of the Basic and one of the Stage 2. If you run 2-0-2, it is too many cards to be TecH.
Getting us to Weezing. I doubt a 1-1 Weezing line would be reliable in the current format. I regularly needed to open with two Koffing in past formats running Liability. You know, when I was playing a deck designed to give up Prizes and the only reliable "Gust" style card was Pow! Hand Extension.
Now if this boils down to TheRolesWePlay and I using the term "TecH" differently, okay. If you have a deck that can handle the self-KOing, the current Weezing might have made a decent anti-Psychic counter-line (if your own deck was Psychic) or Splash (if your deck was not Psychic), but you'd need to run at least a 2-2 line, and probably a 3-3.
If you don't take a lead in Prizes (with either Weezing), you need to be hurting the opponent's resources bad. Against something like Gothitelle, a good player I am should have a spare... so you'd have to set-up to take at least two down rapid-fire. Sadly I don't see how Weezing can do that without being the focus of the deck. There is a fall back option, but you need to be hitting something critical (and since almost everything in this format can Pokemon Catcher out something strong most decks have spares). So the final route for a self-KOing deck is to make sure you're hugely up in resources, usually by making sure that Weezing is taking down something with a lot more Energy, and preferably a fellow Evolution. Right now that does sound unlikely. >_<
So getting back on topic, I am still not writing off Weezing yet. Future cards might provide a proper "I can't believe your deck is built around that combo!" partner, but I do know it is not a general splash or TecH counter for Mewtwo EX. If I said that earlier in the thread or elsewhere... either that was very early on or I just really dropped the ball. >.> Liability Weezing countered so many things in its own grouping of decks, and by their nature a good player had to be careful not to rely on a bunch of stuff a Liability player would take down hard and fast.