PokeDrawer+ - really that good?

[yoyofsho16]

It works great in Kindra and Duknoir/Gengar.

Psh, I tested both Drawer and Blower in the exact same Kingdra deck except for those four cards, and the deck with Blower won waaaaay more games.

 

[Magic_Umbreon]

With 4 in your deck, 28% of the times when you have at least one, you have two or more and can activate the secondary effect. (I use that statistic because 1 is undesirable, but with 0 it's not good or bad just different cards but not clogging up your hand). Whiile it may only increase consistency by a small degree, it does zero harm if topdecked (as with 'dex) and consistency matters. 70% to 80% or similar is a big deal for any turn one/two focused deck. I think it rocks but I don't see it winning Worlds,

 

[PokePockets]

Come on, it ONLY lets you search your deck for cards you need, i mean, come on, that's kinda overrated now a days anyway

 

[Dual_Draw]

Come on, it ONLY lets you search your deck for cards you need, i mean, come on, that's kinda overrated now a days anyway

Please be sarcastic.

 

[butlerforhire]

With 4 in your deck, 28% of the times when you have at least one, you have two or more and can activate the secondary effect. (I use that statistic because 1 is undesirable, but with 0 it's not good or bad just different cards but not clogging up your hand). Whiile it may only increase consistency by a small degree, it does zero harm if topdecked (as with 'dex) and consistency matters. 70% to 80% or similar is a big deal for any turn one/two focused deck. I think it rocks but I don't see it winning Worlds,

Actually, I would argue that running 4 Pokedrawer decreases consistency in a some decks because they would be devoting 4 slots to a card that is so conditional when they could have just gone with more sure-fire search or draw power. Yes, some of the time the Drawers would be beneficial and pay off but other times they wouldn't do anything more than clog the hand or become a pair too late in the game to really make much of a difference (grabbing any 2 cards isn't that significant at every stage of the game when most of your deck is comprised of Pokemon, energy, and other draw/search cards, especially if a lot of your key Pokemon are already KOed/in play), and this unreliability is the polar opposite of consistency. A lot of decks run pretty tight ships as it is and can't afford to free up 4 slots so easily.

I think that decks with a number of techs, particularly stuff that isn't usually/easily searchable like TM-TS2 or Helix Fossil (accompanying Omastar obviously), and/or Rare Candy AND/OR multiple stage 2s actually can get a lot out of Pokedrawer though, mainly because of the fact that it has no stipulations on what you can grab. I also like how it can complete a trio when you're only holding 1 part of it, like DP Dusknoir (being used solely as a tech in non-Dusknoir decks, I mean). I hate drawing into Dusknoir, for example, without Rare Candy in hand, because that means I have to wait until I do draw the Rare Candy to Roseanne's/Bebe's for the Duskull in order to keep the element of surprise there for Dark Palm.

 

[ShadowGuard]

I would play PokéDrawer+ if I had space in my deck.

However, how to find space in a format where you need 2+ kickgyms vs Dusknoir, 1+ Unown G vs Gengar/Dusknoir, 2+ Warp Point vs Magnezone/Palkia/whatever and lots of other cards?

You will draw two copies of those cards, but the problem is, this will normally happen later if search isn't that vital any more. You have to kick out 4 other cards just to have the opportunity to get a search option (usually) one time in a game. And in most cases you'll search cards you could get with Bebe/Rose/whatever as well.

 

[DarthPika]

I like healer much better than drawer.

 

[crazyphil]

pokedrawer+=amazing

 

[Otaku]

As someone who hasn't been able to do much with the game (due to work), I am way out of touch. That being said, when I saw this and Poke Blower +, my thought was "Do I run two of this and four Blower, four of this and two blower, or just make room for a full four and four"?

The exact two cards I need at the time seems fantastic. Pokemon has always been a game of great draw power. Even in the darkest days of early Modified, where Professor Elm was a staple and praised as a great card and you had to Eeeeeeek for a living, we had more, better draw power than many games dream of (like Yu-Gi-Oh). So drawing into two just over the course of the game seems inevitable. Yet according to many posts, it is quite difficult to draw into two of these and/or to have room for one to rest in your hand for those turns.

Next, let me ask, why is it only good first few turns? Thinking about all the games of Pokemon I've played over the years, it is hard to ignore all the times I've needed two exact cards and it wasn't early game. I mean, I've needed two exact cards early, mid, late... whenever! It just seems dubious that in this game two cards can't matter at any time. The exact same two cards? No. But that isn't what Poke Drawer + is. Poke Drawer + is essentially two variable cards. They are like the blank tiles in Scrabble: when the time is right, you turn them into exactly what you need.

Also, it just seems like you'd run them with blower. That way, when you need Blower, you've got it: you exchange them for two blower (or one Blower and something else if you had one already in hand).

If the game is so fast that you can't have one sit in hand for a few turns while waiting for the other to show up, isn't it so fast you need to run four copies just to pray for a lucky opening hand? I mean, that is the metagame I feel is being described here: you have to set up first two or three turns or its already game over.

 

[butlerforhire]

As someone who hasn't been able to do much with the game (due to work), I am way out of touch. That being said, when I saw this and Poke Blower +, my thought was "Do I run two of this and four Blower, four of this and two blower, or just make room for a full four and four"?

The exact two cards I need at the time seems fantastic. Pokemon has always been a game of great draw power. Even in the darkest days of early Modified, where Professor Elm was a staple and praised as a great card and you had to Eeeeeeek for a living, we had more, better draw power than many games dream of (like Yu-Gi-Oh). So drawing into two just over the course of the game seems inevitable. Yet according to many posts, it is quite difficult to draw into two of these and/or to have room for one to rest in your hand for those turns.

Next, let me ask, why is it only good first few turns? Thinking about all the games of Pokemon I've played over the years, it is hard to ignore all the times I've needed two exact cards and it wasn't early game. I mean, I've needed two exact cards early, mid, late... whenever! It just seems dubious that in this game two cards can't matter at any time. The exact same two cards? No. But that isn't what Poke Drawer + is. Poke Drawer + is essentially two variable cards. They are like the blank tiles in Scrabble: when the time is right, you turn them into exactly what you need.

Also, it just seems like you'd run them with blower. That way, when you need Blower, you've got it: you exchange them for two blower (or one Blower and something else if you had one already in hand).

If the game is so fast that you can't have one sit in hand for a few turns while waiting for the other to show up, isn't it so fast you need to run four copies just to pray for a lucky opening hand? I mean, that is the metagame I feel is being described here: you have to set up first two or three turns or its already game over.

To address your last paragraph, with Kingdra in the format you generally are pressured to set up within the first few turns or suffer either a quick loss or a difficult handicap, since Kingdra will not only get quick prizes on Basics and/or get the first big strikes in on your underpowered main hitter but it will also hammer away at the bench, making recovery more difficult and also eliminating your support (ie. Claydol) over a handful of turns.

It isn't the only fast deck in the format, but it is the fastest and most popular, so its presence alone does have that kind of impact on how decks are structured.

 

[(TYranitarFReak)]

In the right deck, i managed to use all 4 drawers.

It's pretty simple, just keep a drawer and use claydol's power to get the second one. Or u can utilize rowan +clay.

 

[prof unky dan]

i play pokedrawer+ in my eeveultion deck, an love it, only problem is u need a trainer starter like farfatched works get with me, oh DP budew great to go grab the missing one from ur opening hand an second turn grab a roseanne an a claydol...thats how i play it

pokedrawer gets my thumbs up!:thumb:

unk

 

[flyboy_87]

I'd rather put other search cards in my deck compared to Pokedrawer, personally. Granted there may be chances you do have 2 or 4 in your hand at a time, but it just isn't as consistent.

 

[Zangoosed]

Personally, I dont endorse a card like this. Its too risky in my opinion.

You absolutely have to play 4 in your deck without question. Which takes up alot of space. And remember youre taking up space on a card that you might not even get to use for what you want it to do. What if you only can find 1 the entire game? What if 1-2 of them are prized? What if its too late?

Just seems like theres too many question marks surrounding the card, whereas I'd always rather play cards like bebe's, roseannes, prof. oaks visit, felicitys, etc. instead because they are ALWAYS going to do what theyre supposed to do for you.

Pokedrawer - High Risk, High Reward

bebe's, roseannes, prof. oaks visit, felicitys - Low risk, high reward



As for Pokedex, this card is terrible. Do not play it. Its a terrible card in modified and there are better cards to choose from period when making a competitive deck.

 

[Otaku]

You absolutely have to play 4 in your deck without question.

I question that. If you can make room for just two, it might still be worthwhile: think of it as a floating two-card tech combo. The difference is that instead of being two cards that are normally useless you're facing deck X... its two cards that when they come together are changed into any two card combo you need (or the remaining two pieces of a larger combo etc.).

Even running three might make sense due to the combo already mentioned: if you run Marley's Request, just pick one copy of Poke Drawer + in addition to the card you really want. As long as your hand isn't empty or known and there isn't four copies of it already in the discard pile, they have to give you the card you really want or chance you having a Poke Drawer + in hand. That kind of painful choice can be taxing on a player. If they give you Poke Drawer + and you don't have one in hand... how hard is it to draw into the ones still in your deck or just Marley again?

So yeah, I can see running two, three, or four copies.

Which takes up alot of space. And remember youre taking up space on a card that you might not even get to use for what you want it to do.

Now, going with the "you must run four" argument, your deck will be thinned by exactly the amount you're using when it goes off. Is four cards "a lot" of space? After all, how many Stage 2 lines can you squeeze into four card slots and run well? Many Stage 1 lines won't even like being that constrained. When it comes to running something in Pokemon, four cards is probably a mid-level value: your deck's main attacker probably requires six to nine slots" and even many supporting Pokemon three to six. It is only when we restrict ourselves to actual Trainers and Energy that it seems like "a lot". Even then its all relative: your primary draw card(s) and search cards are going to be run in threes and fours. Poke Drawer +, when used to full effect, is one of the most potent search cards available, and thus would probably be well worth the space.

What if you only can find 1 the entire game? What if 1-2 of them are prized? What if its too late?

What if all copies of [insert Pokemon/] are prized? How many people run full 4, 4-4, and 4-4-4 lines of Pokemon? When I was regularly playing, I'd probably only run two to three copies of a Basic unless it was really important to setting up or the actual deck focus. When focusing on a Stage 1, I'd probably run a 3-3 line of it. When focusing on a Stage 2 line, I'd probably run a 3-2-3 line (with a few Rare Candy taking up some slack). There were times when multiple copies of one of those important Pokemon were in the Prizes. Sometimes I lost. Sometimes I won. It is a part of the game, and I find it a questionable reason to dismiss this card. If you can't use it optimally, you can still keep it from being a truly dead: just use it to draw one. Hey, that's more than any "extra" Supporters or Rare Candy can do in your hand, isn't it?

What if its too late?

It shouldn't be integral to your deck, so being "too late" shouldn't matter. I mean, the card has use early, mid-, and late game, so getting the combo will never be useless unless you are already in near total control of the game and in which case, what card wouldn't be useless? It is only "too late" when a single copy is sitting in your hand. So in Pokemon, a game of ample draw power and large hand sizes, a single dead card in hand isn't a huge problem.

Just seems like theres too many question marks surrounding the card, whereas I'd always rather play cards like bebe's, roseannes, prof. oaks visit, felicitys, etc. instead because they are ALWAYS going to do what theyre supposed to do for you.

However many Supporters you have in your hand, all but one will always be dead weight until the next turn, unless they all are. Believe me, I've had it happen. I realize what you were aiming for with that, and I don't completely disagree. Rather, I want to put it into perspective: how rarely will a Poke Drawer + be a totally dead card in hand? Team Galactic's Wager is a high risk, high reward shuffle and draw card. Most other shuffle and draw cards are moderate risk, good reward. Yes, relative terms, but I can't do much better right now and I apologize for that. "Straight draw" cards are lower risk, but a lower reward most of the time. I mean, most draw three and have some sort of cost added on. Shuffle and draw cards can get way more, though, usually four, but at the cost of all or most of your hand which can result in getting an even worse hand. And again, all Supporters, taking up your supporter usage.

Talking to players I know, I am afraid my earlier comment might be correct: if your area sees a lot of use of decks that go for quick OTK approaches (where if they don't win during the first/second turn, they gain a quick lead you won't have enough Prizes to overcome), then you might as well run Poke Drawer + so that if two copies shows up, you might set up fast enough to do something about it! If you only get one... use the first effect and replace it with the next card in your deck and hope it is what you need. If the game is that short, it won't matter that you had to burn a Poke Drawer +. If your area isn't dominated by such extremely fast decks... you can probably afford to have one sitting in your hand a few turns before this game's abundant draw power nets you the second you need for the big pay off.

 

[plebeianprint]

when the next set hits, Handsome supporter card could make this thing more playable. if you had one in your hand you could search for another (plus a supporter and a stadium), play two of these cards, and then get two more cards.

 

[Diaz]

Answer to thread: Yes.

 

[Zangoosed]

If you only get one... use the first effect and replace it with the next card in your deck and hope it is what you need.

I'd rather HAVE what I need as opposed to HOPING that I get what I need.

f you can make room for just two, it might still be worthwhile

No way. The odds of having 2 of 60 cards in hand are terrible odds. You really need to play 4 to take advantage of this card.


Now I didnt say this was a bad card. And i never said it wasnt going to see play. I nearly gave my opinion on it, and my reasons why I would never play it. Obviously, some people are going to try and make use of this card. And on the flipside of that coin, other players are not going to play it. We can argue about it until were blue in the face, but only time will tell if Pokedrawer is tournament worthy. I'll wait til City Championships and we'll all know soon enough whether this card is good or not.

 

[Otaku]

This is a Trading Card Game. You always hope you get what you need. You hope you draw into either what you want, or something capable of getting what you want.

I have run two card combos in a deck of 60 cards and it has been worthwhile before. Perhaps more importantly, I am fairly certain players more successful than myself have as well. I could be wrong, but I have to work this morning fairly soon and probably shouldn't be posting at all, so I can't verify this claim. People have run TecH since before the term was coined for Pokemon, probably from before Pokemon was an actual TCG. While you strive to have as versatile a deck as you can, with cards that have as many uses as possible to hopefully prevent ever having dead cards in hand, you seek technical advantage by including a less versatile card in your deck because again a commonly played deck, it grants more advantage than you lose by running it. Perhaps the best example I can come up with in short order is when players would run Neo Genesis Caterpie with a Darkness Energy. This was back when the Special Energy version of Darkness Energy granted anything +10 damage but also placed a damage counter on any non-Dark Type Pokemon it was attached to between turns. People ran the Darkness Energy to use it as Plus Power (not Modified legal at the time) and the Caterpie to combo with it because the top deck was the Feraligatr with Downpour and Riptide from Neo Genesis, and the main hope of beating it was to score a quick, first/second turn KO against their opening Totodile (50 HP, classic Grass Weakness x 2).

So, that is my justification for why someone might consider running just two copies of the card. Is it a guaranteed reason? No. In the above example, players didn't just run one of each card. A few did, but to less success. Then why use it? Two copies of Poke Drawer + act as a "variable" two card combo. So while only running two means you might not be able to assemble them into a combo right away, odds are you will eventually be able to cash them in and unless you are already dominating the game, make great use of them.

Now to the second issue. When I stated to "hope to draw" using the first effect, it was in a very specific circumstance. If Kingdra (or any other extremely fast deck) is dominating the metagame, and your only real shot is to open with a great hand, then your best bet is to run Poke Drawer + because in a turn or two you'll have to win or you'll already have lost anyway. Since Poke Drawer + is a normal Trainer, you don't have to worry about your Supporter usage. So if you have two, you get the great search effect plus whatever Supporter you can throw down and get almost a guaranteed set up turn 2/3. If you get no copies... then hopefully you got a good draw card or other search card or what you need. That's just the nature of Trading Card Games. If you get a single one, you play it, draw a new card, and its like it was never in your hand in the first place: you opened with seven cards plus your opening draw for eight. After using the draw one effect, you have eight cards again (well, less any starting Pokemon). You even have the slight benefit of drawing from an ever shrinking deck.

Now, neither of my reasons guarantee I am right. Most obvious reason I am wrong is I have misunderstood the current game speed. If we say the fastest the game can be is Speed 1, where basically first/second turn the game is determined, if not actually won, that is Speed 1. If the game isn't really decided for a good amount of time, say 10 turns per player on average, that is Speed 3. With Speed 1, you're going for the quick win and you more or less have to rely on luck more than most would like, because slow and steady loses. With Speed 3, you can count on the abunant draw cards to get two Poke Drawer + into hand within a reasonable amount of time, especially running four copies of it. But what if it is a different speed, Speed 2? What if each player is only getting five turns on average, and its also the most common amount of turns as well? Then I am wrong. You won't have to rely on luck as much, plus you won't have time to wait for that second copy.

Oh, and of course, there could be something else entirely that makes me wrong. Zangoosed, you gave your reasons. I just don't feel they were accurate, especially when you catagorized all thos Supporters, broadly, as "Low risk, high reward".

 

[Brady1]

i doubt anyone ever ran a 2 card trainer combo that you have almost no chance of getting off. something like duskull-rare candy-dusknoir yes, because pokemon are searchable with roseanne and bebe. there is no way of searching out pokedrawers.

And theres no way to search out supporters, NM, candy, warp point, pokeblower, etc....oh wait, there is.