What Constitues a long time POP Ban...

[SteveP]

Hasn't either Dave or Mike stated previously that _their_ corporate legal department will NOT allow this?

'mom

That's company policy, not some legal restraint. Don't mix the two.

 

[TrainerJL]

Why do you say that? Most of the players are minors. You don't think there would be legal concerns with publicly releasing information about minors?

 

[EeveeLover]

To clarify the arguing with staff:

At worlds there was a gentelman (generous), that argued several times, with several different Vols and Staff, he was being very rude, using all sorts of words that aren't nice for some adults to hear, much less the 10- group he was near. After several out bursts, after being asked to move away from the barriers, he was asked to leave by Dave S. and advised that he would never be allowed at another POP/PUI event.

Also: giving out private information about someone is in fact illegal for a company to do. That is why both the 'Gym and PUI have privacy act advisements.

 

[TrainerJL]

Another point. I don't know what PUI uses to decide on bans, but here's the rule of thumb I use at one of my events to decide whether to stop someone's behavior:

If you do something that will cause me to have to take a complaint from the parent of an 8 year old, I'm going to stop you. I don't need those kind of headaches.

See? Simple, really! If the event was all 30 year olds, the standards of behavour I would accept would be higher (lower?) than with a room full of 8 to 14 year olds.

 

[Venusaur]

What if there was a waiver banees could sign that said something like "I give permission for POP to discuss the reasons of my ban with myself and the public".

 

[SD PokeMom]

That's company policy, not some legal restraint. Don't mix the two.

Uhhhhh....If PUI/POP's _own_ corporate legal department WILL NOT let them release this info...there's nothing to argue, as what THEIR legal department says, goes. Sounds like a legal restraint to me...

I'd dare to guess that their standards of legal privacy is just a bit higher than WotC/DCI's considering that POP's target player group are minors...

'mom

 

[SteveP]

Uhhhhh....If PUI/POP's _own_ corporate legal department WILL NOT let them release this info...there's nothing to argue, as what THEIR legal department says, goes. Sounds like a legal restraint to me...

I'd dare to guess that their standards of legal privacy is just a bit higher than WotC/DCI's considering that POP's target player group are minors...

'mom

Fine, don't publish general information about minors who get banned. That's not different than the real world where convicted minors have privacy rights.

But we're talking about an adult who got the 50-year ban. Privacy laws have become perverted by over-zealous legislators because of media-hyped stories of privacy invasion. We've gone too far the other way, IMO.

Some day, when I stand before the judgement bar of God, my life will be an "open book" for all to see. Hopefully, I won't be too ashamed.

 

[EeveeLover]

Again, you can go back to the arguement that it is none of our business. An all inclusive list a bannable offenses is not realistic, as ppl would find ways around it.

I guess if PUI wanted to they could say POP ID ######, belonging to - insert name - has been banned until this time, oh wait, they do that and they make it available to all TO's/PTO's. As for reasons, if we really needed to know, they would make that availble to the TO's/PTO's in the same format.


Steve: I hope in your case something you did at Pokemon is your biggest worry. :thumb:

 

[Rainbowgym]

Uhhhhh....If PUI/POP's _own_ corporate legal department WILL NOT let them release this info...there's nothing to argue, as what THEIR legal department says, goes. Sounds like a legal restraint to me...

I'd dare to guess that their standards of legal privacy is just a bit higher than WotC/DCI's considering that POP's target player group are minors...

'mom

Explain why a TO's suspenstion is exposed to the public and a player not, sorry those things don't go together.
If it's about privacy it's EVERYONES privacy and not only a selected group.

The expression privacy is misused very often and in some cases used to wipe doubtfull actions under the carpet.
Makes me think about the expression Meg45 used: UNWANTED lawcases.
Yes unwanted but that's not the same as Legal grounded.
Any company who is "clean" and takes decissions according the Nationals Laws and their own rules, should not be afraid to be in court to often.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

To clarify the arguing with staff:

At worlds there was a gentelman (generous), that argued several times, with several different Vols and Staff, he was being very rude, using all sorts of words that aren't nice for some adults to hear, much less the 10- group he was near. After several out bursts, after being asked to move away from the barriers, he was asked to leave by Dave S. and advised that he would never be allowed at another POP/PUI event.

Also: giving out private information about someone is in fact illegal for a company to do. That is why both the 'Gym and PUI have privacy act advisements.

That's not my definition of an argu. In an argu you don't need words which can **** people.
An argu is a discussion which can be "heated" but there is no need to use foul language.

Funny you mention the privacy act advisements. It's not even an advice it's an obligation.
But it works 2 ways, and to ask from common people to respect privacy (like here on the board) and even take action if they pass that line. Should also be done for companies.
I don't know the USA privacy laws, but I do know the European ones. And as far as I know private persons should have acces to the information a company stores about them and also private persons do have a right to correct this information if it's incorrect.
And this is not only for name/adress/day of birth.
But as soon there are "bussiness dollars" involved, somehow that privacy doesn't matter anymore, at least that's my experience.

 

[BJJ763]

Explain why a TO's suspenstion is exposed to the public and a player not, sorry those things don't go together.
If it's about privacy it's EVERYONES privacy and not only a selected group.

I do not see a reason being displayed on the Deactivated Orgainzer List, just the same information displayed on the Deactivated Members list.

Also remember that court costs money. Lots and Lots of money. Best to avoid unwanted court visits...

 

[Rainbowgym]

I do not see a reason being displayed on the Deactivated Orgainzer List, just the same information displayed on the Deactivated Members list.

Also remember that court costs money. Lots and Lots of money. Best to avoid unwanted court visits...

I was not talking about a reason, again the reason for any suspension should be knowledge of PUI and the person in question.
What I mean why is the name/enddate of a suspended TO diplayed in Public and why that same information about a player NOT.
It's makes also no sense a person cannot see its OWN suspension details, while others can.
Absolute NO SENSE.

And I know court costs a lot of money, that's the only reason I haven't been there yet in our suspension case.

 

[YoungJohn06]

extremely untrue. did the law deal with martins ban? no. how about jordans? no.

there are no guidelines to constitute bans. there is no protocol that is followed when determining them. all schwimmer has to do is wave his magic wand and you're gone. sad to say lets behave ourselves this year kids.



jeremy, you know we can't talk about real stuff like that here on the pokegym. this thread would be locked in an instant. unjustified bans like this will kill the game if word gets around to the general public. its just bad publicity. at least have guidelines to your fricken game.

I could NOT agree with you more. I've seen many times the same type of offense with different punishments for different players... seems more of a game of favorites to me. I've known this with scwimmer and his wand and his famous "ball" that he can "take home" when ever he wants as he puts it, quite honestly this kind of thing, random bans without reasons, bans for things that are similar if not identicle to what other players have done but gotten off with warnings, players who get multiple warnings but never see a ban but first time offenders for similar actions result in bans, will be the reason I'm choosing to participate in another card game this year, one that has guidelines to what warrants a ban and what doesn't, where the bans are not decided by the current mood of the bigshot incharge who seems to get away with this crap. Quite personally if I was banned after seeing the lack of professionalism in this game and the employees at the top of it, makes me every year feel less and less like I want to play. It's pretty sad when you have brand new judges judging things as important as gym challenges or just inexperienced judges ruining someones chances because of a terrible ruling that wasn't correct (I have seen too much of this). On top of that, the whole sleeve nazi issue at nationals. My friend was in line with black sleeves but was told he wasn't allowed to use them because they were too reflective (They were brand new dragonshield). Someone right next to him was about to be approved until I asked why it's not being judged the same across the board, I was informed the sleeves are left to the discretion of the judge. I also saw people entering nationals WITH these sleeves my friend was not allowed to participate with... yet the replacements he had to buy from PUI on site, were even MORE reflective, yet allowed? Seemed more to me like someone wanted more $$ in their pocket. They need some stable rules and maybe that'd be a good start. Another friend was told he could NOT use his japanese sleeves because they weren't a solid back, however some of his friends with the same sleeves were once again permitted. How can you tell someone their sleeve isn't alright but then let them see others in the tournament with the same sleeve? That's real professional. As Rulemaster said, guidelines would be a nice touch.

When WOTC ran the game, despite the whole no 15+ issue for a while, I would go to their tournaments alone, because I enjoyed playing the game. I didn't know many of the players I do now days. I just went for the fun and because I enjoyed the game. The last few years I've been finding it hard to want to go. The MAIN reason I've been going is to see my friends who still participate in the game because I don't see them much. If they weren't around I would not have given this game the time of day the last two years. Even with them still in it, I don't feel it's enough to keep me around this year. I know of quite a few others who feel the same way and a lot of my friends won't be returning for another season of Pokemon. I really wish PUI would get their act together because there was a time when I enjoyed this game. Many of my friends who have been very big into this game, made the comment at nationals "Maybe it is time to find a different game". I'm highly urging many of my friends to play another game with me, people at my local stores that ask about pokemon when they see my worlds backpack, I tell them it's a fun game but it will become very dramatic and stressful once you go to a tournament and have to fear whether or not your sleeves are alright and bring extra money because you may not have the right sleeves even tho they were fine the day before at another event. I really don't feel this is much of a kid friendly game with that kind of tournament atmosphere.

 

[Team Cook]

Mr Cook, from your posts, I suspect you're one of those "my way or the highway" kind of guys -- not very willing to listen to the other side of reason. You seem to have a problem with players who take views that don't agree with POP. Rather facist, if you ask me.

Last night I came home from league in a great mood. I had a good crowd, lots of fun and I went 10-0. I get home and BAM, I get your post.

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on PokeGym. There's not a soul on this board that would agree with you. I'm probably one of the most open minded, easy going members on this board.

The simple fact that I don't agree with FS on one subject and I get this from you? What a joke. You know, I actually feel a common sense moment coming on. I feel like if I type the next sentence, I might get banned.

 

[YoungJohn06]

Can't we all just get along and stop debateing and agree the what PUI does is best for game.

If you have a problem with it, go find a myspace to cry on.

LOL. Yeah I'm sure everyone will be saying that as more people continue to get disgusted with their "best for the game" discisions and people stop playing.

 

[Professor Dav]

Maybe autocratic would be a better term since fascism connotates racial superiority.

I have no problem with bannings. I do have a problem with authority figures that state it's okay to slap a 50-100 year ban on someone and merely state "they deserved it!"

Some kind of penal code seems only fair. It's absurd to say "I'll ban you at my pleasure and impose what penalty I consider proper."

Although POP shouldn't publically discuss bannings, they can certainly do what WOTC does -- post the general reason why the ban was given.

Perhaps POP would like to be able to do this, but there is some reason that they are not allowed to? Who knows. It's hard to say what reasons we may have when you're on the outside, and we're not allowed to talk about it.


Dave

 

[CHARIZARD MASTERTRAINER]

Just a question here, but I'm not against Bans issued by POP at all, I think that for the most part they have been dealt with in the correct manner. The problem I have here is not informing the individual was suspected of doing or put it another way, lack of communication between the POP staff and those that are being banned.
I'm just saying, is it not just to inform someone what has happened to cause such an event to occur? I mean, if my house was on fire, I would like someone who knew what was going on to let me know about it, so in the case of POP issued bans, I would be interested in knowing the series of events that led to me being banned. If there are legal issues, I would think that they could be straight forward and say "look we made the decision to ban you based on certain evidence which we cannot discuss at the moment because of legal complications, but at this time we want to let you know that this is the situation, we are discussing how long you will be banned for, and when we are allowed to give you more details on this matter, we will get back to you.."
That for my account would be an understandable method of communication...

CMT​

 

[meganium45]

Come on Abe, some reality required.

The people being banned, in most every case, know the reasons for their Ban, and the length of time.

I have dealt with 2 banned players from my area, and I assure you, POP listened to both of them, and gave them the reasons. I am sure that they give more info to the banned player than the community at large.

The banned player may then choose to share, or not to share, with the rest of us.

Maybe they have changed significantly since those bans, but I doubt it.

Vince

 

[SteveP]

Real example of bad privacy laws:

A convicted child molester moved into our area. The police knew about. The public had no clue. Police were gagged from disclosing this information to the public because of legal restraints.

Then one day, a concerned mother visited the local police station complaining about the suspicious, perverted behavior of this new neighbor. She wanted to know if that person was a convicted child molester. At that moment, the officer took the lady into a back room and disclosed the facts. However, she was told that although she can tell her friends about the molester, she may NOT publically announce such information in the local home owners newsletter, PTA meetings, etc.

Now, I'm not professing total openess regarding the devious and naughty acts of deactivated players, professors, and PTOs. But, it's kind of like my molester example. Local PTOs know (like the police), but if I want to know if that person I'm playing Pokemon with at leagues was banned because he stole cards, I have no right to know unless that person tells me himself.

Oh well, it's a weird world we live in when individuals have more rights to hide their naughty acts than we have to know what those naughty acts are.

 

[SD PokeMom]

If someone has a POP ban for whatever reason, they're not going to be playing you at league...because one needs to have a POP# in order to participate.

'mom

 

[SteveP]

Last night I came home from league in a great mood. I had a good crowd, lots of fun and I went 10-0. I get home and BAM, I get your post.

This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on PokeGym. There's not a soul on this board that would agree with you. I'm probably one of the most open minded, easy going members on this board.

The simple fact that I don't agree with FS on one subject and I get this from you? What a joke. You know, I actually feel a common sense moment coming on. I feel like if I type the next sentence, I might get banned.

I turned off your bold print. I'm not sure why you feel the need to type in bold.

I repented of the "fascist" remark -- a bit over-the-top -- in a later post. Sorry to you Mike for that comment.

Going back to your original post on this topic Mike:

http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=682864&postcount=22

"This is directed to everyone." I commented on that post, not your later one responding to FS.

"PUI owes you no explanation, period......" A bit autocratic don't you think?

"The comment about walking on egg shells is a bunch of crap......" My comment about walking on egg shells from another post was a bunch of crap? Now you know why I was a bit taken back by your post, espcially when you rambled on about "common sense" and how stupid you are if you don't know the difference between right and wrong.

Anyway Mike, I invite you to go back and re-read your original post on this topic. It demanded a response.