What has Pokemon TCG really become?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Krucifier, Aug 24, 2007.

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  1. Krucifier

    Krucifier New Member

    Gee, I bet you all immediatly though, "Oh...This thread looks interesting!" But as soon as you saw "Thread started by Krucifier" I bet you all thought "Meh..." or "Great, another way to kill brain cells" or even "LOL" and kept scrolling down.

    Regardless of that, You came to read this. Why? I have no idea, maybe out of curiosity?...Or maybe you thought this could be a decent discussion...Who knows, For some reason - I don't know why, you came to view this thread.

    Getting to the point of this, and put the coffee pot on, this is a looooooong rant, which I hope will lead to some decent discussion, rather than just "like...Shutup...You are a noob" or "love live Lafonte!" or other posts that barely go larger than a sentence.

    In this thread, and in this post, I wish to discuss several issues. All relating to the one topic - What has the game become? I feel that this is a valid thought, a valid question, and a heck of a valid discussion.

    Now, the Pokemon Trading Card Game...What do you first think of when you hear that? Do you think of Lafonte? do you think of Cards? or do you think Fun? To enlighten myself in that question - I asked several people what first comes to mind when they hear the words, the people I asked were seasoned players. The first said "Cards". Well...That was to be expected, so I asked him what comes to mind next, and he said "Competition". The next person I asked said "Winning". The third person said "Fame".

    Now, Those were older players that I asked. I have also asked a few little kids. The first child said "Fun". The second said "meeting new people" and the third said "Fun".

    Fun. That is what is supposedly the core element of this game. Now I agree that I am no saint. Yes, sure, I have done some bad things in the past. But at least I am man enough to admit them. The reason I misbehaved so bad?

    I affiliated myself with "the wrong crowd". Now this is not Doctor Phil or Oprah, and this is not Jerry Springer either - I am not trying to make this into a Women's talk show. I am being serious. Ever since I stopped affiliating myself with "the wrong crowd" I have been alot better off. And alot better behaved. Although, some people may beg to differ...

    When those kids gave me their awnsers to my question, I guess it made me really think...Are they going to do what I did and join in with the "wrong crowd"? These kids, who play to enjoy this game, are they going to be taken down a path of "It is all about winning", Arrogance, Cockyness...

    But I think before I can continue, I must define "wrong crowd". Whether it be online - as the Pokemon community developed into so rapidly, or in person at League's and Tournaments. The wrong crowd, from my experience - and from my knowledge - whilst they may not directly teach you bad behavior, you sure as heck will pick up on it, and you don't know why...But you do it as well.

    I will give examples based on my experience...Whenever I was at league I was surrounded by people who hate net decker's - they loathed them, they absolutely hated Arche-types. This attitide rubbed off onto me, and I found myself coming onto the Pokegym and bagging out people because they used Arche-types, or bagging out Arche-types in general.

    The "wrong crowd" are people who have an attitude and behaviors that you may or may not know are bad...But you find yourself doing what they do, thinking what they think...The "wrong crowd" are people whose actions and attitudes rub off onto you...It only ever takes until it gets far too far to repair that you realize your mistake...

    How can it be acceptable to allow Children - or ANYONE for that matter, to expose them to attitudes and behaviors that ruin their friendships, ruin their "reputation", and that of their League, of their State, of their Country. I take full responsibility for what I have done - no, this whole thread is not buttering up everybody to think otherwise, it was MY choice to hang around with the people I did, and now I regret it. I have assisted in ruining the reputation of myself, of my League, of my State, and worst of all, of my Country.

    It is like a vicious chain...And it makes me want to cry when I see other people - be it my age, or younger or older, following this chain.

    Attitudes and Behaviors - whether you like it or not, they rub off on people. This game is becoming full of people who are arrogant, cocky, think it is all about winning...All because of being around people that are the "bad eggs" of the chicken coop.

    Now that I have said that, tis time to move onto the next part of this "discussion". And, the further we get into this jungle of problems, the more and more this thread will become clear to it's title.

    Now Australia is in tatters right now. EVERYBODY has different reasons for this. But even I can admit that it is because of what I have said and done here on the Pokegym that sparked this whole thing over the last year or however long it has been. Sure, there are others that contributed aswell, but, this is not about them. And as far as I know, THEY point the finger at ME.

    The spark for Australia's problems? Me and a few other people, whom, in direct relations to everything said so far, "hung out with the wrong crowd".

    The fuel for the problems in Australia - The people who carry on with their nonsense about how "Person X" and "Person Y" ruined this and that. And the fact that everybody listens to a few certain people - these few certain people tell people what to believe and say - these people believe it, do what they are told, say what they are told, believe what they are told.

    What is happening NOW in Austraila? Well, The spark, along with the fuel, have set Australia on fire. Everybody is torn with their constant bickering about how "Person X and Person Y should be banned from OP" and "Person Z and Person C are on the top of my hate list". I can tell you now that there is a big rage over the outburst that a certain person made - big enough that some people are conspiring to have him banned from OP...Banned from the League...And let us not forget this simple fact. WE HAVE NO CURRENT OP MANAGER! Croftminster - the distributors and OP organizers for Australia keep firing the OP managers - leaving us twiddling our thumbs whilst they take forever to find a new one...And I really hope the rumours of POP taking over OP in Australia is true...It might take us into a new age without one of the main benefactors of our problems, the tension caused by having no OP manager for quite extended periods of time, some of our OP managers doing jack all. And the other? Well, I will hand an applause to Vickey - she is the only OP manager that actually CARED about the game, that actually did it because she ENJOYED it. Not just because of the big fat paycheck at the end of the week. She is the only one who has got half our stuff ON TIME.

    What are Australian's left to do? In their boredom of waiting for a Premier Event, seeing as we do not see a single Battle Road. Well we argue with ourselves, we argue with others, blame others for our problems...Putting us into a further state of chaos...I guess I have to say this now:


    I guess by this point you are asking yourself..."where the heck is this thread going?", or, if you are an Australian "Oh...I can't wait to go and tell everyone what Krucifier said this time!!!" Well I am doing all this talk about Australia for the simple fact that I do not believe any of you know the problems it is going through. And anyone from Australia will gladly shutdown my viewpoints. I guess that that is one of the downfalls of stuffing yourself up by hanging out with the "bad eggs of the TCG Arena".

    Now onto the next part of my thread.

    Lafonte, Team Metanite, Team Rocket, Gah, there is so many other teams just like these, widely known, with WORLD CHAMPIONS in them. People who REPRESENT the game...Little kids who IDOLIZE them, who take after them. How can you just sit there and post "Lafonte Rulz" in every thread? How can you sit there and post "Team Metanite 4 Lyf" in every thread?

    I guess that it is not just big and well known teams like that, but locally known teams, teams that have City, State and National champions of there City, State of Country in them, People still idolize them, people from that City, people from that State...

    Now there is nothing wrong with Teams, I think they make the game better. But when they get all arrogant and cocky, "aww...We got the 2002 World Champion in our team! yeah! fear us!". Or just post utter garbage like "our team rules"...

    Or when they abuse their popularity and their widely known and accepted deck building skill to stockpile a card, and hype a deck that features that card for money.

    It makes ALL teams look bad.

    So finishing up with some other points I would like to raise, and a summary.

    Pokemon, a game that can give so much, but do so much. Pokemon is not just a game, but it is a community. The "community" is gradually, faster and faster getting pulled under a cloud of "You must win at all costs", "It is all about winning", "Do what you have to do to win", "Argue", "Spam", "Flame", "Nobody can stand in your way! if they do! they must be CHEATERS!", "If you lose you HAVE to go onto the Gym and rant about it"...The list can go on. The Pokemon Trading Card Game has become a series of "The OC".

    A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link - a community is only as strong as it's overall attitude. You can read this, and say to yourself "Hah! None of this applies to me! I am a saint!". But you are lying to yoruself, there is NOBODY here who can EVER say that they have NEVER had the DESIRE to win, there is NOBODY here who can EVER say that they have taken winning over having fun, there is NOBODY here that can say that they are "innocent little angels".

    Slowly and slowly Pokemon has deteriorated. It is going to keep going this way unless things are done. You can LIE to yourself and say that NOTHING can be done...Or you can say that someone else can fix it. But...The reality is, fixing what has been broken starts with yourself.

    I guess I am not "popular" enough to say this, but I am going to say it anyway.

    The Pokemon Trading Card Game has reached a point - not only here in Australia, but everywhere else in the world where there NEEDS to be change, or it is going to collapse.

    Change begins with ourselves. We need to stop all the arguing and fighting, all the hatred and totally and utter bull honkey.

    Without further ado, begin the flames and spam, seeing as how every other thread gets reduced to it. If anyone wants to have a SERIOUS discussion about this, feel free to attempt to.

    With severe carpal tunnel from writing this,
  2. Jason

    Jason New Member

    Well said, Krucifier. Totally agreed on every point what had be said.

  3. LionheartEX

    LionheartEX Active Member

    Krucifier, I understand most points where youre coming from, but it's where you're coming from which concerns me most about Pokemon AU. Which is why Frank is getting out of there. It's good to see you have changed who you hang out with also.

    I cant really relate to you though, as Melbourne is completely different to most leagues. We aren't competitive, however we know how to play and just have fun with the game- we sort out arguments in a mature manner.

    However some teams and groups in the US- or rather some individuals from these groups, set a bad example and this results in one ruined community in Australia- and more players around the world who take on an elitist attitude which is plain wrong and it's not what Pokemon is meant to be about. Things like "I have a Mew d and I'm going to own everyone" at a casual tournament to PROMOTE the game is just not on- it was enough to scare kids away... and it HAPPENED which is what makes me sick about some players in the Brisbane community.

    What can we do about it? whine and not become so bad ourselves
    Will it be fixed anytime soon? nope, because we can't control people's behaviors.

    Needless to say most incidents from Australia have one point of origin- and as such was revealed to me at worlds.

    Like, Sydney have "Team Bondi" and Melbourne have "Team Ultima" but its nothing like the teams here- its what we label our community and how we Identify our "in jokes" which are actually g rated- allowing anyone to enjoy our company. It's got less to do with Pokemon and more to do with being friends.

    There are people I want banned to say the least, but Krucifier, you have to understand that one of them is not you- You've improved a lot.

    On the OP situation, POP might be employing Vickey to run it- if that doesn't happen then I have no choice but to run it myself.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2007
  4. Drich

    Drich New Member

    Don't forget that people involved in OP represent 0.001% of the global sales of POkémon Cards.

    Children that stack cards to show them to their friends saying "look charizard is the best" are not very concerned with flaming, bashing on the Pokégym.
  5. LionheartEX

    LionheartEX Active Member

    Understandable, but not all of us are little kids who think Charizard is the best. I think Krucifier is reffering to OP specifically.

    We need an OP system just like everyone else. For us, now, it seems to be dieing by the day and theres not much anyone can do about it- as much as we try.

    Our big names avoid Gym for the exact reason that Krucifier pointed out- The arrogance and elitist attitudes of a lot of players here.
  6. PokeDaddy

    PokeDaddy New Member

    Krucifier -

    Well written and well presented.

    I admire the courage it takes to admit to mistakes AND try and do something about it. PM me with what is happening in AU because I would like the "rest of the story".

  7. Krucifier

    Krucifier New Member

    Drich, as Marcus told you, I am reffering directly to OP in Australia as one of the many things.

    The only decent OP manager we had was Vickey - She was fired. The one before her, well...The one before Vickey...From what I know, she quit before she got fired. But that is to my level of understanding...I do not know much about Kyp. As for the person who replaced Vickey, his name was Renato...I have never seen or heard ANYTHING from him...

    I honestly do not care who runs OP in Australia - it is in a dying state...Simply because NOBODY has been running Croftminster for the last couple of months...As long as the person who runs OP in Australia knows the rules of the card game, can get us our stuff on time, can get us the events we are supposed to have - then I would be happy with that person.

    Pokedaddy, as for "the rest of the story". I think that for now that should remain untold. There is so much chaos at the moment, and if things keep going like this, it will not get much better...I am sure that soon enough, the rest of the story will get told by others.
  8. PokeDaddy

    PokeDaddy New Member

    I spent all six rounds judging Jason at World's and only got a taste of the turmoil.

    My request is so I can understand and possibly try to help thru proper channels.

    Your call.
  9. Krucifier

    Krucifier New Member

    I guess...

    I will PM you, and I believe LionheartEx is PMing you aswell...
  10. FriedBlaziken

    FriedBlaziken New Member

    I don't have a team. :(

    Anyways back on topic.
    Yeah Krucifier's right, we have no OP manager. League usually consists of 3-6 people and we didn't get any Battle Roads.
    Marcus and go take the OP job. It's the only way.
  11. Khion

    Khion Member

    Krucifier, well said. *applauds*

    With my move to Melbourne, I am seriously considering taking up the OP manager's position, even if it is just to put stability in the game, although I have been informed that some people will leave the game should this occur.

    The Brisbane community started out as a great bunch of people who enjoyed the game for what it was...a game. Over the following months however, certain members of the group began to get cocky and over-zealous of their abilities as gamers. It is fine to feel good about being good, but to put other people down because they lost to you or to a friend of yours is a breach of the Spirit of the Game.

    When the Brisbane community started to bicker and complain about the littlest of things, I got sick of it and left the group in the hands of another. Yet as soon as I did, I got more contact from the Brisbane guys than ever. ONce I was made Premier Tournament Organizer for Queensland, certain people disagreed with this decision and began to make my life a living nightmare, even after becoming a moderator on the Australian forums.

    It seems to be the the community in Brisbane, and indeed, Australia, is looking for a scapegoat. Not everyone. Just those who are sour with people and the way things are going in the community. So of course, who they blame? The person who seems to be the most vulnerable, and the one that tried to protect his own players when they got in trouble with other players - me. I honestly don't care if people hate me for whatever reason, but to go and start accusing me alone that I am the one causing the downfall of Pokémon is Australia is downright rude and hurtful. Both Dave Schwimmer and Vickey (when she was Australia's OP Manager) thought I did a great job judginf the Australian Nationals. To be honest, no one should be accuse anyone of ruining anything. Each person has played a part in the downfall of the Pokémon community in Australia, but at least there are some of us trying to rebuild it.

    In summary, the people of the Australian community are a great bunch of people. But its a certain few that try to make it bad for others. However, yes, everyone has contributed into the downfall of the community...now it's time for us to rebuild it. And if that means that I take up the OP position and we lose a few people because they don't like me, then so be it. If it improves the community then it's all's well that ends well. And those that want to quit obviously don't like the game as much as they say, else they would stay and deal with the events that are occuring, and not be so immature as to blame their mistakes on others.
  12. Kempley05

    Kempley05 New Member

    Actually I agree with just about all of this.

    In defense of team M, you really should separate mock bravado and stuff that is meant to be spoof, from people being genuinely big-headed. Usually it's posted in people’s reports etc. to back each other up and generally promote comradely – not to do down others.

    Now on the other hand things like the Claydol ex at US nationals is sad and wrong, I might well keep good information to myself, but deliberately mis-leading others is pretty low :(

    Your points about individuals small minded bickering about pointless issues is very true. In the UK we had a bit of derision last year about a North/South divide in the game – it wasn’t good for anyone but after our LD failed to make any cities count to rankings till March, we united and our nationals were in my opinion played with a better spirit than 2006.

    I disagree with your specific point about Team M, but your other points in general are valid.
  13. Krucifier

    Krucifier New Member

    I did not mean any offence by posting the "mock bravado" stuff. Team M was a good example of a well known team - whether they do or don't do this "mock bravado" stuff, if a single person in the TCG community is doing it - everybody does it.

    Personally, I think you did a great job of judging - and if I could judge, I would. But nah...I am too "young" apparently...The only problem I had with your judging was you saying I could not move Holons Castform back with Flame Ball. But who cares? I am so over that, and Nationals was FUN, whether or not you made a bad call. And it was interesting to see that you and Adam were the only people to raise their hands and say "I will judge!" for Nationals...

    When I came to the league, you were awesome, you taught people how to play, you were just...So...Cool...I think you were an awesome LL...But...Yes...Then what you say happened...Happened...

    The person who said that you ruined it. (Everybody should be able to guess who that person is) is totally wrong. In fact - if it was not for you, Australia would have been put into the Stone Age a looooong time ago.

    I think that you leaving is costing the Brisbane community dearly. We are losing a great mate, and an awesome teacher.

    I guess I never really thanked you enough. If it was not for you, I probably would not be where I am today.

    Thank you Khion, for all the work you have done for Brisbane, and whether you move away or not, best of luck with anything you do :wink:
  14. Khion

    Khion Member

    Thanks very much for your kind words Krucifier. I was not expecting it...you've made my day.

    Unfortunately, I cannot change my plans of moving to Melbourne. Sadly, the majority (not all) of the Brisbane players show little, if no respect to anyone that has higer power over them. they feel as if they are the best at everything, which is not true. Some may be great players, I admit, but most can't build a single, original strategy to play with.

    One person has forced me to hasten my move away from Brisbane, and that person should not be allowed to remain in the Pokémon community at all in my honest opinion. The way he treats others and such is appalling, and although it sounds like I am running away from these happenings, I am not. I feel as though my skills and knowledge would be put to better use elsewhere, and knowing I won't get abused by certain individuals.

    Thank you again for your kind words of encouragement and support Krucifier. I hope everything works out for you as well.
  15. Jason

    Jason New Member

    Just to let you - Khion, LionheartEX, FriedBlaziken, Krucifier and all the other Australian players.

    Myself and my friend certainly fully understood about the currently suitation of the Brisbane league and community, that two of the players, admits that we are some source of giving the Brisbane league and community a bad playing environment due to our greatness of playing skills and knowledge in metagaming. We had made our decision completely as of tonight.

    Both myself (Jason) and my friend, Sam (Pikachu*_rules) will be taking on a long vacation from the game in sake of hoping that the Brisbane league and community will improve. As Sam said, the playing environment was not like it was happened two years ago - it was an exciting and happy fun place to play pokemon and had friends, but now, the playing environment is well, let just say "the fun had gone, its all about competition and decks".

    This post is to let you know that as of September the Fifteenth, both of the Australian National Champions will be leaving the Brisbane league for good and will only show up at any Premier level tournaments and any Pre-releases.

    Whenever one of us (myself or Sam) will make a return to the Brisbane Pokemon League or community, we promise that we shall follow a much better example to the Sprit of the Game than before, and show all kinds of respects to younger players and teach them the ways of becoming a great player and leave our past behind to try to keep the improved Pokemon League and community clean and exciting.

    Thank you all for such a great two years of playing experience.

  16. Krucifier

    Krucifier New Member

    I remember last time you said you were taking a long vacation...You came back 3 weeks later more cocky and arrogant than ever.

    I do not believe you can speak on behalf of somebody else. If Sam wants to say anything, he can do it himself.

    The Brisbane League was not ruined because of, and I will quote,
    Your greatness of playing skills? Excuse me, but last time I checked, your BOUGHT the deck you used for Nationals...And last time I checked, your "great playing skills" come from your "Knowledge in Metagaming". And according to my Dictionary;
  17. pikachu*

    pikachu* New Member

    I have decided for the goodness for Brisbane league (since i am such a bad person in sooo many peoples opinions (mainly not from Brisbane). i have decided that i will be leaving Brisbane league for a long period of time, till i get over the many things that this week has caused. Not just pokemon but also personal stuff too. I as of the 15th of September will be steping down of playing at Fastbreak league's till after christamas. I hope that after this i will have grown alot and will be able to not be like i am now. I hope that the excitement of the game will come back to me because i miss it alot and i haven't had it for a fairly long time. i just hope that once i come back everyone will have stopped on bickering.

    Well that is it from me for a very very long time.

  18. Jason

    Jason New Member

    Forgive me, Krucifier if I typed the reason of giving the brisbane league and community a bad playing environment incorrectly. Also, can you please stop going around and braging about that I bought the decklist etc etc.
  19. LionheartEX

    LionheartEX Active Member

    can this not be flame thread?
  20. Kempley05

    Kempley05 New Member

    No offence was taken, just saying we wouldn't do it to do other people down or harm the spirit of the game, quite the opposite. Like I say I agree with the gist of what your saying, and do believe that the game isn't being treated as what it is - a children's card game...
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