HGSS-on BearPlume

[Stuart Hayden]

Your are right. I tested the deck out some more. And it does slow it down. Not to mention it is just sludge drag bait.

I think the worst match-up for a BearPlume is a Mewbox. Sludge drag just kills beartics. That is the one I am worried about at BR.

My friend is bringing a mewbox deck this week to league so I can play test against it. Hopefully it goes well.

 

[ShiningLion]

My friend is bringing a mewbox deck this week to league so I can play test against it. Hopefully it goes well.

Stuart, why are you running 4 catchers? How does that help the strategy of this deck while you are setting up Vileplume?

Just curious.

---------- Post added 09/17/2011 at 06:03 AM ----------

Here is the current list I'm running:

Pokemon (26)
2 Manaphy
2-2 Zoroark
2-2 Dodrio
4-4 Beartic
3-2-3 Vileplume

T/S/S (20)
4 Professor Oak's New Theory
4 Pokemon Communication
3 Pokemon Collector
3 Rare Candy
3 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Copycat
1 Flowershop Lady

Energy (14)
4 Double Colorless Energy
10 Water Energy

Believe it or not, the Pokemon Communications actually work really well to set up this deck. If you just focus them on getting Beartic and Vileplume evolved (particularly vileplume), you can get things running pretty quickly. The other pokemon are optional and can fall into play the next few turns using your Supporter draw power. I chose Manaphy as a starter simply because it won't get KO'd as easily as a baby, and if you don't end up using its Deep Sea Swirl, you can actually get a lot of damage in fast on a water weakness Pokemon like Vulpix, Tepig, Cyndaquil, Phanpy, etc. On first turn you can do 40 damage to them. It might lead to you KO-ing one the next turn, or at least softening it up so it has less HP when it evolves.

That's my list for now. I'm going to test this a lot at league this weekend and hopefully run something very similar to this for Battle Roads next weekend.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

Just something I came up with. Mainly so beartic can kill tech cards. I may take them out. Iunno.

---------- Post added 09/17/2011 at 09:41 AM ----------

This is my updated deck.
I mainly made it faster when it to getting out evolution lines so I can get my set up out that much faster. I still don't like the idea of giving your opponent the opportunity for getting the cards they need which is why I'm not running Copy Cat or Judge.

Pokemon (24)
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
2-2 Dodrio
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-3 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (21)
1 Flowershop Lady
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Pokemon Communication
2 Twins
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 Cheren
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (15)
4 Double Colorless Energy
11 Water Energy

I'm still running Twins for the fact that I will likely get one of my basics sniped somewhere along the line. So Twins will help.

 

[ShiningLion]

I'm still running Twins for the fact that I will likely get one of my basics sniped somewhere along the line. So Twins will help.

Twins is great, but I've never found it to be too useful unless running a full set of 4. It can be very helpful when you are behind, but it is dead weight when you are tied or ahead, and if you only have 2 in there then they are very hard to acquire when you are behind unless you can use Nasty Plot. That's why I took them out of mine.

I am not sold on Zoroark yet. He is a useful tech, but at times not exactly what I need. I really wanted to use Gliscor instead of him, but gliscor needing fighting energy made it hard to get the right energies in this deck without using rainbows. It wasn't consistent on Energy, but the effect was really awesome. Gliscor could paralyze undamaged pokemon, and with vileplume out, if they can't evolve there is nothing they can do to but sit there for a turn. It softens them up by 30 HP which helps Beartic to switch in and mop up. Gliscor of course retreats for free with Dodrio, or just one energy without Dodrio.

In a reuniclus deck it would mean that they would have to leave 10 hp on their active or it will just repeatedly get paralyzed, meanwhile gliscor is hitting for 30 fighting damage over and over. With Gothitelle/Reshiram/Zekrom they would have to leave 10 damage in it in order to even attack, and if they did that brings you within range to KO it with Zekrom/Reshiram or Beartic with a Black Belt. I was really hoping to make one of those combos work, but it doesnt work well without Dodrio and Vileplume already set up, and it was hard to get the energy right even though Gliscor only needs one fighting energy. I won't say it's impossible, but it didn't turn out very practical in any of my play testing.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

Yeah. My deck is a lot faster now since I made the changes. Running no Judges and only a few twins with more draw power really, really worked out.

---------- Post added 09/18/2011 at 09:44 PM ----------

I am actually thinking of running this now:

Pokemon (24)
2 Zekrom
2 Tornadus
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-3 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (20)
1 Flowershop Lady
1 Judge
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Twins
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 Cheren
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (16)
3 Rescue Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
9 Water Energy Energy

I'm having troubles in certain games getting either of my attackers out. So I'm thinking Zekrom and Tornadus will help and since I'm running more special energies I can bypass the effect of Hurricane.
And Rescue Energies will help me get back sniped Vileplumes and KO'ed Beartics. And the reason I took out the dodrio's are even though they help against anti-catcher. Running more beefy basics has the same effect.

I'm not 100% on this build, but my reasoning for them is sound.

---------- Post added 09/19/2011 at 05:29 PM ----------

Running this as of now. Trying to find a good medium, I suppose.

Pokemon (25)
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
2-2 Dodrio
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
4-2-3 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (21)
1 Flowershop Lady
1 Sages Training
2 Cheren
2 Judge
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
3 Twins
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (14)
4 Double Colorless Energy
10 Water Energy Energy

 

[ShiningLion]

Definitely stick with Dodrio. Beartic is kind of lost without him. 3 Vileplume is overkill in my opinion. They always clog my hand, and I've done fine with just 2 so I dropped back down to 2 on that. Vileplume getting sniped is not a big issue, as it takes Yanmega 3 turns to do. I'm much more concerned with Beartic getting Linear Attacked in two turns than Vileplume getting sniped in 3. It's the lowers stages you gotta worry about.

Here is my current build which I will be using for Battle Roads next weekend:


Pokemon (25)
2 Cleffa
2-2 Zoroark
2-2 Dodrio
4-4 Beartic
3-2-2 Vileplume

T/S/S (20)
4 Professor Oak's New Theory
4 Copycat
3 Pokemon Collector
3 Rare Candy
3 PETM
2 Pokemon Communication
1 Flowershop Lady

Energy (14)
4 Double Colorless Energy
10 Water Energy

 

[Stuart Hayden]

Major overhaul on my deck. Will have the build posted shortly.

---------- Post added 09/20/2011 at 11:11 AM ----------


Pokemon (22)
1 Tornadus
1 Cleffa
2 Zekrom
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-1-2 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (21)
1 Flowershop Lady
4 Rare Candy
4 Pokemon Collector
4 Twins
4 Pokemon Communication
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (17)
4 Rainbow Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
9 Water Energy Energy

 

[pokemaster1970]

When I play my BearPlume. I have a Reuniclus in there. And Blissey Prime. So I can spread the wealth with damage to other Beartics on my bench then heal it all off with Blissey. The Seeker up Blissey and repeat. I think the only thing that could kill a Beartic in one shot is a Emboar 19. I got the idea from Ross's Deck at worlds. Same kinda thing except different pokemon as the main attacker.

My daughter ran this deck in Juniors and dominated, winning the first BR of the season. Juniors have no clue how to deal with this deck.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

My daughter ran this deck in Juniors and dominated, winning the first BR of the season. Juniors have no clue how to deal with this deck.

Well...yeah, they're kids.

 

[ShiningLion]

What is Tornadus for?

 

[Shield Lawrence]

Have you tried trading cleffas for tyrogues? In my current BearPlume build, tyrogues have been especially useful in taking yanmegas down to a nice 80HP remaining, perfect to icicle crash for KO.

 

[ShiningLion]

Have you tried trading cleffas for tyrogues? In my current BearPlume build, tyrogues have been especially useful in taking yanmegas down to a nice 80HP remaining, perfect to icicle crash for KO.

That's great if the Tyrogue doesn't wake up and get KO'd. Also great if it wakes up by your next turn so you can actually retreat it under trainer lock. Sounds too flippy to me. I hate coin flips and have horrible luck. I know Cleffa has the same problem, but I really value the draw power option it gives. It helps for setting up fast. Since you can only play one supporter per turn, it's nice to have Cleffa out there for a secondary hand refresh, should you need it.

It's a pretty great idea except for Tyrogue having 30 HP. That's the part that scares me. Cleffa is a great pokemon to get you set up or buy you a little time as a last resort because it can get you the other cards you need to move ahead. Tyrogue simply stalls and does a little bit of damage. The incentive to use Tyrogue seems low compared to cleffa. Zoroark can soften up Yanmega the same way with foul play and free retreat via Dodrio, leaving Yanmega to be taken out easily by Sheer Cold with Beartic, or a second Foul Play from Zoroark. That's not as fast as Tyrogue, but Zorua can definitely take an attack or two before getting KO'd, whereas with Tyrogue it might get KO'd the first time it is attacked.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

I don't remember why I added tornadus. I took him out for tyrogue though.

 

[djjoe227]

What do you guys think of this? I had to switch gears from what's being displayed in the other posts, mostly because I don't own extra copies of Dodrio, in addition to me not liking the card:

1 Tyrogue
3 Tornadus
4 Cubchoo (Powder Snow)
3 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
1 Beartic (The other until I get another Sheer Cold)
3 Yanma
3 Yanmega Prime
3-2-2 Vileplume

3 Judge
3 Copycat
4 Professor Oak's New Theory
2 PETM
3 Rare Candy
2 Pokemon Communication
1 Flowershop Lady
3 Pokemon Collector

4 DCE
10 Water Energy

The first problem is that Tornadus, to me, is an excellent starter in that it sets up Beartics to be "Attach DCE and go" by moving Water Energues around while still packing in 80 damage. The problem being of course that it's probably taking a DCE to get that far to begin with. I want to steer away from Cleffa, as I already have many shuffle/draw effects, what else should I do?

 

[Stuart Hayden]

I wish I had Yanmega's.
The only thing I see is maybe drop the Elm's to run full line of Communications.

 

[djjoe227]

I wish I had Yanmega's.
The only thing I see is maybe drop the Elm's to run full line of Communications.

I just changed from 3-1 to 2-2 Comm-Elm because of the whole Trainer thing- I usually find myself cluttered with Communications after Vileplume hits and Elms are more versatile here.

 

[Jesfa]

Dropping the 2-2 Slowking for a 2-2 Gliscor, you're actually using the same deck I'm running.

My main issue has always been getting Vileplume up fast enough to ensure the lock is in place. Once it's up, the deck is solid. The other main issue I've run into, is the inability to get back Special Energies As of late, people at my local league have been running Lost Remover like crazy, which would absolutely ruin the speed factor of this deck.

2-2 Gliscor
3-3 Beartic
1-1 Dodrio
2-2 Zoroark
3-2-2 Vileplume
2 Zekrom

Everyone there benefits from a rainbow/DCE in some way, Lost Remover kills my version of this, if the lock isn't in place asap.

Gliscor is an excellent Stage 1 for this type of deck, simply because he has 1 retreat, and his first attack takes a special/fighting, to do 30 damage, and paralyze. His next attack (tack on a DCE), does 50 and poison. This means you 2 turn drop Zekrom with no chance of retreating for a revenge outrage, or if Zone appears, you can cost him a Zone. Downside to Gliscor is Yanmega absolutely destroys him.

EDIT: awesome addition would be energy to trade a drawn water for a dce.

 

[ShiningLion]

Jesfa, I ran this same run of pokemon exactly for a while, and I can say that Gliscor is a victim of "theorymon". It works so great in theory, in reality... it's terribly inconsistent with that many pokemon floating around in the deck. Also having to have 3 energy types in the deck is probably the biggest reason it doesn't work well. You'll need rainbows, water, and DCE at least. It's very slow to set up, especially thanks to Vileplume.

I ran my most recent build I posted here at Battle Roads (zoroark, dodrio, vileplume, beartic) and went 3-2. I very easily could have made the finals if it weren't for a terribly bad draw on a Reshiram matchup. The fire types were a cakewalk, but I had a bad shuffle and all my supporters ended up clumped in my deck and never got to my hand, so I couldn't even get a single Beartic set up that game That happens with this game though. :\ There's a lot of luck involved.

I'll be going to another BR next weekend. We'll see how it does there!

 

[Jesfa]

Silly question then, but why are you running Rainbows then? You never want to actually attack with Vileplume, you'd be better off with running Shaymin and seeker no? This would allow you to switch your DCEs as needed.

My edit didn't work nicely thanks to being on a smart phone, I was suggesting Energy Exchanger, would allow you to take an extra water you've drawn, and pull a DCE out to turn 2 lock with Bear.

 

[Joai]

Can Mew fit into this deck by chance?