Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

How big will infernape 4/Luxray GL be?

nope, it can beat Champ without Toxitank. i lost to it with Gechamp in the fourth round of a BR, but then i beat it twice in a row in Top2. after they G, if your playing straight champ, you have to get out lvX to OHKO most of the time, but then they'll OHKO you back. Gechamp on the other hand is much more of a challenge for LuxApe.
 
Its not hard to put Skuntank G/Toxicroak G in, I built the deck with it and it worked extremely well. Gechamp seems hard, but unown g on claydol/uxie lv.x, ape x can ensure you a easier matchup since all you have to do then is control your trainers in hand. Ape early game spreads so much vs GEChamp that by the time they setup eveything, anything will have 40+ damage on it, in range for kos from ape/ray.
 
i like burdn of a day said:
and that spread doesn't work against Mother Gengar, which really discourages playing it.
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It doesn't discourage playing the deck - it discourages spreading against Mother Gengar. >_>
I don't care how good you are at theorymon - you AREN'T going to get nidoqueen out without claydol, unless you don't have gengar on the field.
 
Stigma said:
It doesn't discourage playing the deck - it discourages spreading against Mother Gengar. >_>
I don't care how good you are at theorymon - you AREN'T going to get nidoqueen out without claydol, unless you don't have gengar on the field.
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I don't get how its SO inconceivable to get a Nidoqueen out without a Claydol. Many decks are starting to play draw trainers during Power Spray's power droughts. It's like decks couldn't even function before Claydol was introduced, according to this logic.

I won two of my games at Regionals without a Claydol on the field, tossing me into T16. It's dumb to neglect draw supporters and to thin out key staples because you expect to have a fresh hand every turn.
 
Shen said:
I don't get how its SO inconceivable to get a Nidoqueen out without a Claydol. Many decks are starting to play draw trainers during Power Spray's power droughts. It's like decks couldn't even function before Claydol was introduced, according to this logic.

I won two of my games at Regionals without a Claydol on the field, tossing me into T16. It's dumb to neglect draw supporters and to thin out key staples because you expect to have a fresh hand every turn.
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i like burdn of a day said:
and that spread doesn't work against Mother Gengar, which really discourages playing it.
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Well...
Nidoqueen wouldn't be hard to get up, sure... But how will you get up your ACTUAL Gengar? Considering they will USUALLY pull of a T2 or T3 Bright Look... That Claydol's gonna be gone awfully early.
Between that dead Claydol and 3-4 Power Spray, your Uxies certainly aren't seeing play either.
Maybe it will be easy to get out Nidoqueen, but you won't bother getting it out... you'll be struggling to get out Gengar anyways. ANd even if you do get them both out, late game, it will be REALLY hard to recover.
And even then, they could just Poketurn Luxray X for another Bright Look and KO your Nidoqueen... not that difficult. Chriscobi hit the nail on the head in another post.

You people seriously act as if Mother Gengar has some sort of rule where at the beginning of the game during setup, you can just lay a Nidoqueen line on the bench. It won't always be there.
 
The deck is very good, I can safely say that it is the best SP deck right now, its like an american version of the Blaziken FB/Luxray GL played in japan.
 
HoLoN_TrAiNeR said:
The deck is very good, I can safely say that it is the best SP deck right now, just a small taste of what Blaziken FB/Luxray GL will be in the next season.
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why does everyone keep hyping up Blaziken, it's so bad. It's like Machamp Lv. X but without the donking attack and the flip attack. Sure it can do 120 for 1 energy, but it also gets hit for 80 Auto right back. So anything that does 30 to it is going to OHKO right back. So it can only keep OHKO things for so long.

Comparison: Ape vs. Blaze

Ape:
Blaze:​
2 20s for RC
Burn anything that doesn't have an Unown G for R​

Advantage Ape

Ape:
Blaze:​
50 for RCC
30 for RC IF your opponent has any water Pokemon it does 60, that's a big IF​

Advantage Ape

Lv. Xs
Ape:
Blaze​
Disruptive Power
A body that also deals damage to itself, making it easier to KO​
Free retreat
1 Retreat cost, not bad but not free like Ape's​
100 for RRC and discard 2
80+40=120, but then 80 is done right back to you​

Advantage Ape

So I really don't see the hype about Blaziken.
 
I usually tend to dislike discussions like these...

Blaziken has no power, that's an advantage against gengar, it can use unown g more effectively because the 2 energy attack, and the burn attack is pretty nice. Also, since it doesn't discard like infernape you can play less energy in your deck and bronzong can be dropped for other cards.

But, better wait for the next season.
 
This deck loses to machamp. Unless you put in heavy toxitank which you then are sacrificing consistency and other matchups.(If someone can prove otherwise please do so.) With more extensive testing, Gengar seems less than a 50-50 unless you play like 3 unown g which would also sacrifice consistency and in turn cost you other matchups. In addition, Flygon looks like a tough matchup on paper. A 1/1 mewtwo tech isn't as detrimental as I thought it would be considering lux can bring it up once it is dropped and ape can ohko it.
 
Wood811 said:
This deck loses to machamp. Unless you put in heavy toxitank which you then are sacrificing consistency and other matchups.(If someone can prove otherwise please do so.) With more extensive testing, Gengar seems less than a 50-50 unless you play like 3 unown g which would also sacrifice consistency and in turn cost you other matchups. In addition, Flygon looks like a tough matchup on paper. A 1/1 mewtwo tech isn't as detrimental as I thought it would be considering lux can bring it up once it is dropped and ape can ohko it.
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All this from the person who thought this deck lost to Kingdra. I played against Chin with his Flygon/Machamp and I lost because he flipped 3/4 on my Uxie and then made a misplay because Jeremy was distracting me. He concentrated more on his Machamp, and I wasn't playing Toxicroak before just 2 Unown Gs.

I've yet to playtest against Gengar/Queen but right away I see so many outs against that deck that it's not a 50/50 at all.

Flygon is way to slow to give this deck any problems, like I said before I honestly think it's BDIF but not anyone can just pick this deck up and play it or make a good list for it.

Not even the 37th ranked master in the US could make a good list for it, with only a 1/1 Luxray.
 
Gengar imho is an easy matchup - I'll give you that, cobi
But machamp is just very hard for this deck. I play 3 unown g, and 1-1 nintetales, and that only goes so far. You're too slow with unown G attached to actually ever attack anything...even though you kill claydol with bright look, machamp doesn't really care, usually, because of its heavy uxie line.
Running toxitank would definitely make it easy - but I have absolutely NO space in my deck at all to fit in skuntank, 3 stadiums, toxicroak, and a psychic energy or two. :\
 
Opinions on Dialga G.
I can't decide how much it really helps this deck, so I'm just gonna list the pros here, and hopefully get some feedback from you guys (This means Cobi, Ignatious, or anyone else who actually knows something about this deck).

Things Dialga G does for the deck:
Provides interesting alternate attacker (particularly with the Deafen attack)
Shuts off: Nidoqueen,Regigigas, Mewtwo X, and Machamp X, amoung others.

That's really it. So it seems good, but I can't decide if it is really worth the 2 spaces, consistancy loss, and time spent getting it out. How are you supposed to retreat that thing anyway?

The deck does need an answer to Mewtwo though, and for that I was going with Ninetails MT, but upon futher thought, Ninetails is actually harder to get into play without the trainer line to support it (no bebe's).

Thoughts on this matter?
 
I've been trying Ninetails MT in Infernape Luxray, and I like it so far. As well as dealing with Mewtwo, if you have Lake Boundary or Lucario GL, it will also OHKO Flygon and any Nidoqueen you can drag out. With a Crobat drop, it will also KO a Machamp if they have Uxie benched (which is pretty common).

I do run 2 Bebe's and a Lux Ball, mainly to get Claydol out, but it makes using Ninetails easier too.
 
It loses to power spray but is a solid overall play if you have a 98%.3333 perfect list or better. If I were you, I would not use unless I had a perfect list. And were ranked in the top 150 of your age group nationally.
 
why does everyone keep hyping up Blaziken, it's so bad. It's like Machamp Lv. X but without the donking attack and the flip attack. Sure it can do 120 for 1 energy, but it also gets hit for 80 Auto right back. So anything that does 30 to it is going to OHKO right back. So it can only keep OHKO things for so long.
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Consider a few things.

1. It DID come second banana to Gechamp. Which means it saw a lot of play and probably a lot of Gechamp on its way to the Top 2. You can't deny the results.
2. Ape does not have complete control over the field. Blaziken FB's base however burns and controls, which means your draw engine won't be staying very long, and if you do try, theres still Luxray GL there too to keep you in line. What does Ape do? He causes switches, but a Crobat can be baited for it. Blaziken also means you don't have to waste slots on finding alternate ways to get energy back from discard pile.
3. Blaziken has burn in effect in addition to this nasty damage. Granted, its flippy, but G can't protect you (Guy you want have G on it? Go grab another one.) and potentially in between two turns, you can do 110 damage WITHOUT having the disadvantage of 40 additional damage. (And if you can predict fine, then that extra 40 may not even knock it out..)

Ape is good, but Blaze has a lot of things that make it viable too, in addition to the experience its shown in the Japanese metagame. (Which is generally not poor.)
 
I think PLAYTESTING will weaken the appearance(s) of Infernape4/LuxrayGL decks.
Many people who are giving this deck a spin are unsatified with the outcome
(it requires alot of work to hit fast enough to take the prizes before the giants build and start smashing down the low maximum HP on the Lux and Nape)

Every deck has its shortcomings.

People who are bent on running it will run it. people who are trying to consider what will fair well against EVERYTHING will avoid this deck.


What good is gusting if you can't KO ?

This deck does 100 unless you're lucky enough to have a weakness play on your side.
 
Rogue Archetype said:
I think PLAYTESTING will weaken the appearance(s) of Infernape4/LuxrayGL decks.
Many people who are giving this deck a spin are unsatified with the outcome
(it requires alot of work to hit fast enough to take the prizes before the giants build and start smashing down the low maximum HP on the Lux and Nape)

Every deck has its shortcomings.

People who are bent on running it will run it. people who are trying to consider what will fair well against EVERYTHING will avoid this deck.


What good is gusting if you can't KO ?

This deck does 100 unless you're lucky enough to have a weakness play on your side.
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You do not seem to understand all of the tricks available here.

Luxray GL lv. X can come out very quickly, and when it Bright Looks, it will typically go for Claydol or Baltoy first. Baltoy is a OHKO, and Claydol can be with 2 Crobat Gs/Bat and Skuntank G/Bat and Poketurn/etc.. If Skuntank G is there to Poison Structure, the player can also simply do 60 and Poison it so that it can't use Cosmic Power AND dies at the end of their opponent's turn, allowing a "free" attack on whatever the opponent brings up next. Taking out an opponent's Claydol early on devastates many decks, and then Power Spray handles the recovery Uxie attempts while one Infernape 4 comes up to soften things with Split Bomb and another one sits on the bench, prepping to become the lv. X, which will clean with Fire Spin later.

Fire Spin does "only" do 100, but you are forgetting all about the aforementioned Crobat Gs, Skuntank G, and, last but not least, Infernape 4's own Split Bomb attack, which is extremely convenient for setting things up for OHKOs. Fire Spin also already OHKOs a fresh Beedrill without any help (assuming Shaymin lv. X isn't in play, and if it is, a single Split Bomb will set it up), as well as Dialga G lv. X, even with all 4 Special Metals AND Snowpoint Temple.

Also, Intimidating Roar is a great Power, even if it does pale in comparison to Bright Look. Having the option to force a switch on an opponent whenever can be very effective, especially late game when the bench is littered with heavily damaged stuff/tech or support Pokemon that shouldn't be active like Azelf, Claydol, Dusknoir, etc.. It makes sacrificing much harder as well, since the buffer will just get pushed back to the bench while one of the Pokemon attempting to be shielded will be forced active.

This deck can also tech in Rayquaza and run a handful of Stark Mountain (doubles as a Skuntank G trigger also) as a way to get energy back on to Infernape 4 lv. X after Fire Spin. It can also function as a giant sitting in the wings, waiting to grab that last prize with Sky Judgment.
 
yoyofsho16 said:
Well...
Nidoqueen wouldn't be hard to get up, sure... But how will you get up your ACTUAL Gengar? Considering they will USUALLY pull of a T2 or T3 Bright Look... That Claydol's gonna be gone awfully early.
Between that dead Claydol and 3-4 Power Spray, your Uxies certainly aren't seeing play either.
Maybe it will be easy to get out Nidoqueen, but you won't bother getting it out... you'll be struggling to get out Gengar anyways. ANd even if you do get them both out, late game, it will be REALLY hard to recover.
And even then, they could just Poketurn Luxray X for another Bright Look and KO your Nidoqueen... not that difficult. Chriscobi hit the nail on the head in another post.

You people seriously act as if Mother Gengar has some sort of rule where at the beginning of the game during setup, you can just lay a Nidoqueen line on the bench. It won't always be there.
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I'm gonna go ahead and post from personal experience, which I know is pretty discouraged as far as talking Pokemon match-ups, but in my current Gengar build I hardly think it's tough to rip into a Gengar AND Nidoqueen as early as T3. I built it to be super consistent rather than aggressive (Read: Donkey), since I think a fast and consistent Nidoqueen/Gengar can ward off early offensive maneuvers. I still know I can't say much on my behalf rather than "my personal experience," but I don't think the idea ought to be pushed aside anymore than than the Theorymon that's already being discussed.

So just so we're clear, I would very much play a Nidoqueen line on the bench at the beginning of the game. I'm not "acting" much at all, really. I know it's a conceivable play for Claydol to go down before the rest of the field goes up, but I honestly think Luxray/Infernape has more to dig for to rip a T2 Claydol KO. Oh, and I'm playing 3-3 Claydol along with 4 BTS... no joke ;)

What does Infernape/Luxray need? An active Luxray (Also meaning the player must have not used an attachment retreating), Luxray Lv. X, an Energy Gain, Lightning Energy, a combination of Crobat(s) and a possible a Poketurn, 2 other SP Pokemon in play, and Power Sprays just to KO my Claydol and block my Uxie drop? Gengar just needs 2 Basics which don't need any sort of positioning, 2 Candy and/or BTS + Stage 1's, and 2 Stage 2's? I think there's more options for Gengar situation to play out than Luxray's, and in the light I'm puting the this in I don't think Gengar's play looks anymore like a "won't be there" act than Luxray's. Also don't be forgetting Gastly's Pitch-Dark can be game changing these first turns, and Gengar is more than happy to pick on benched Crobats used on Claydol FTKO.

I've personally tested the match-up, since I'm not one to go about playing Theorymon. If you still think I've just had bad lists in the match-up, then either I'm terrible player or I'm missing some secret tech... either that or I'm a liar. And really, I think the play for this match-up in favor of Luxray/Infernape is Dialga G Lv. X, any complaints about a spreadless game are gone.

Also, again for clarification, I'm not saying this match is a favorable one for Gengar, nor unfavorable. I agree with Chris Wood, it's a 50/50, and as you can see it's very opening-hand dependant. I just don't like the way Luxray/Infernape is being praised as some sort of game-breaking deck without a loss in sight.

Rogue Archetype said:
I think PLAYTESTING will weaken the appearance(s) of Infernape4/LuxrayGL decks.
Many people who are giving this deck a spin are unsatified with the outcome
(it requires alot of work to hit fast enough to take the prizes before the giants build and start smashing down the low maximum HP on the Lux and Nape)
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^ This. /thread
 
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