Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

When did pokemon die?

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^To add to that, part of the reason I attend the "restaurant" I do is because that's where all of my friends go. I'll live with the bad food so long as I get to hang out with friends that I've made over the past 5 or so years of eating there. Not to mention that the food is free (at least, in a way). Also, they sent me to Hawaii last year for one grand feast - I can't complain with that!

There are good reasons to play the Pokemon TCG. The format just isn't one of them.
 
Kingdra was bad, but Machamp and Gengar SF were even worse! Up until then, Unown G, which would kinda suck otherwise (I mean, haven't you ever started with one? Then you know what I'm talking about!), wasn't needed in the format. If you didn't play two copies of it, Gengar would absolutely eat you with Shadow Room. Not to mention Gastly is one of the most broke basics in the game. Name one basic that evolves into a stage 2 that is just as good as Gastly was. That's right, there isn't. "Pitch-Dark" is crazy good, keep in mind this was WAAAAY before we even dreamed of BTS. I don't even need to tell you what Machamp did to the game. It gave players the option to turn 1 (though in all fairness, Kingdra did so as well), but aside from that, it introduced an atrocity to the game: Hurricane Punch. Flipping four coins isn't fair. I've been donked by Hurricane Punch just as many times as I have been donked by Take Out. Many people have lucksacked that magic 90-120 number before (myself included), and when you do you can sorta see a tear from the corner of your opponent's eye. It's evil.

Then we introduced SP. People didn't think it could get worse, but it did. At first it was Dialga/Palkia G. Whether you were locking Trainers and Stadiums or preventing your opponent from striking gold with Cosmic Power, SPs gave you an engine of cards that can all be searched for easily, and have various and crazy effects like making it easier to attack or totally nuking your opponent's hard work by removing the damage counters they placed on you, and so much more. Combine that with two incredibly usable Pokes, and things get a little unfair.

Then came Luxray GL Lv.X. And that is where the game has died in my opinion. Just about every tournament is dominated by that deck. It is close to unstoppable and for good reason. Combined with Garchomp C from the set after, it can totally keep an opponent locked with Sprays while the deck turbo-blazes through six prize cards. There are counters, but they have all tried and failed.

That's my two cents.
 
I have to agree that LA introduced a lot of wonky stuff. Kingdra putting out 60 damage turn one after a rare candy for instance. Since then, I would say 80% of decks that are competitive (and even some not-so competitive ones) have had a donk option present, making donks fairly common in competitive play. We've had Shuppet, Uxie, Jumpluff, and a bunch of other donk-capable decks. SP Pokemon, who are capable of high damage output turn one with the right trainers also sped up the game dramatically. Granted SP Pokemon take a lot more skill to use in choosing what trainers, supporters, and Pokemon to play each turn, but it has kind of encouraged speed more so.

When we switch to HGSS - Black & White, I think we'll see the format slow down dramatically. Rare Candy becomes Breeder from base set and the SP engine will be gone. It should be interesting to see how things play out.
 
To me, just because the format is bad doesn't mean the game is doing worse. I mean more players are going to events, and overall it seems that when B/W comes out anything that would have meant a downturn would actually turn into an upswing. Remember players are NOT the biggest buyer of the CCG. It sounds strange, but that's the truth. So, while the cards as far as playability might be really bad, doesn't mean sales are down.

If I had to say the peak for Pokemon sales wise is 1999-2000, which is Base Set through Neo Genesis.

If I had to say playability and the best time to play the game, then I would have to say October 2005 through August 31st 2007, which is the time period that Delta Species was legal. There has been and most likely never be a trainer engine (I added that because some people who I disagree with say that Claydol is, but I think what was played speaks for itself) that has dominated the game and made the game more balanced. I wish that the cards were still legal, that's how good they were.

I'm sure that most people might disagree with me, but to me, that's when sales and playability the game was at it's greatest height.

Drew
 
You know what I've done to give the game more life? I've canned all my competitive decks and started building fun decks for league. It's actually has made me more excited about the game and opened my eyes up to creative combos that realistically would see the light of day at any tournament.

I didn't even know what Meganium Prime did until recently because of how limited state 2s are in the current format. I found a cool Yanmega from SV that I think would work alright with Meganium Prime. I'm going to team it up with Parasect from SV for some early energy acceleration.

That kind of idea wouldn't have been found if I would stuck with the competitive card pool, which is sorely limited.

I think you have to step out of your comfort zone to find the fun the game offers. It seems in magic that there can be fun and creative ideas that also compete well in tournaments, and Pokemon has had times where the same thing can be said about it, but at the moment, that isn't as true.

Of course, if everyone at your league runs competitive decks, I can understand how it can be hard to find fun ideas to play with.
 
EvanBaker said:
Sound ridiculous? That's because it is! And that's exactly what this thread is. Brief summary: if you don't like the game, if you don't agree with the rules, if you don't enjoy the game mechanics or the cards that are available... why do you continue to make yourself miserable? Why not play another TCG?
Click to expand...

Why I don't play another TCG?
Because I know THIS TCG had enough creative options in the past and most likely will get them back some day.

Until that time I will sit out the rediculous game mechanic SP is given and those "one nrg hit hard" Pokemon.
 
I think this rotation is a big mistake. Uxie, Gengar and Machamp should have gone. The format is still dominated by the same cards while hgss + black and white are going to come out. They should have rotated all the sets up to and including stormfront.

This is not a rotation for me. It's just giving more food to Gengar so that he gets bigger.
 
It really wasn't a rotation, and I agree completely, Gunwing. I haven't played at all this season, might somewhat, but the more I look at it, the more I don't feel like playing competitively this season.
 
i've played this game since the pre-release of base set. I've competed in worlds 6 times, won state, won 20 city championships, 13 battle roads, 3 gym challenges, topped at nats many times, and just went to state last Saturday and went 4-4 getting donked 4 times and donking 3 of my wins the other win was a t3 win (my opponent had nothing) This game is considerably worse than it used to be. The need for skill has diminished and the balance of luck has gone crazy. The game feels almost entirely luck based at times. The game is too fast. Games go too fast without need for actual foresight and Intel on the format, or counters to specific plays. When things like claydol get rotated there is a huge dip in consistency in almost every deck, meaning that there is a lot more luck involved in getting bad starts, and top decking specifics. When cards like roseanne's research get rotated then there is a dip in energy consistency, with no legitimate way to draw into energy other than cyrus people will have bad luck and lose games do to energy drought. The game doesn't even feel like pokemon any more. I likely won't quit, but thats because I'm more addicted to the 12 years of dedication I've put into the game than the actual enjoyment of playing.
 
Part of the reasons why I made fake cards was because it was my way of showing the power-that-be what can be done with the game. The one thing I never liked was the idea of adding Pokémon-ex, Pokémon Lv.X or whatever else they've added since 2004 as a way to excite players, but frankly, the only thing I've learned is that the only way to excite players is buy making broken cards every once in a while. Hearing that Gust of Wind will be reprinted may be a good sign.

But if I may make an observation... The fact that the Pokémon TCG is STILL going strong--to the degree that Nintendo is actually going to take it ONLINE (ala Magic The Gathering Online)--should be more than enough of a sign that the Pokémon TCG is far from dead. I mean, what other card game has lasted this long? Magic, L5R, Yugioh... and Pokémon are the only ones I can think of in the "Been Around for 10+ Years" club. Other games that had a lot of money behind it, like Star Wars (both CCG and TCG), Star Trek CCG, Lord of the Rings and Duel Masters have croaked after only about, say, five to six years.

Then consider this: the topic of "The Pokémon TCG is DEAD!" has been one that is no stranger to the 'Gym; for as long as I can remember, SOMEONE has brought this topic up for debate at least once every year for the past, what, twelve years? Maybe I'm overexagerating it a bit, but the fact that everyone here is still able to question whether Pokémon TCG is dying should be more than enough of a sign that it's NOT.

...

Some food for thought: some of you guys mentioned Magic as having a robust metagame and card base.... That's KINDA true. Magic goes through ebbs and flows, wax and wanes, ups and downs like Pokémon does. Every once in a while Wizards will make a set full of awesomely awesome cards (Tempest- & Urzas-Block), only to get super-gunshy and make a couple blocks full of awfully awful cards (Masques-, Invasion-, and Onslaught-Block). Then eventually they'll feel that the game is getting too stale and release new awesome sets with awesome cards (Jace The Mind Sculptor, anyone?)

I've observed that the Pokémon TCG is the same way as well. Powerhouse cards in Base-Neo were followed by gunshy-esque designed cards from the Card-E-block, only to be followed by the super awesome EX sets (full of Blazikens and Gardevoirs).

Now I don't know anything about the recent sets, but for all I know the game is in a downturn, only for Black and White to bring some awesome back into the game. Who knows?

In any case, the BEST sign for the death of the Pokémon TCG is when Nintendo says "Sorry, this'll be the last set. Thanks for the memories! But now it's Game Over." And as far as I'm aware, Nintendo hasn't said ANYTHING close t that yet, right?
 
To me the most balanced format was around FRLG. Pidgeot was a godsend and gave decks unparalleled flexibility with tech and structure.

This format lacks a GOOD, SOLID setup pokemon. RS+ had Delcatty. FRLG+ added Pidgeot. Deoxys+ added Magcargo. DS+ added Porygon2. HP+ added Holon's Castform. SW had Gardevoir, followed almost immediately by GE's Claydol and Porygon2. Since then... Noctowl and Ninetales (bad and deck-specific) in GS, Slowking Prime in UD (iffy), and now finally we got Magnezone in TM, which is basically a bad Claydol on a stage 2 instead of stage 1.

I don't count Uxie. One-time powers suck. Uxie only sees play because it's the ONLY OPTION.

We need either significantly stronger Supporters... or a better reusable setup pokemon. Being forced to Seeker to reuse your Uxie (and consequently hand your opponent their own Uxie free of charge) is incredibly weak.

If I had my way, I'd revisit Quick Search. Keep it on a Stage 2. Keep it impossible to stack. Give the pokemon a retreat cost of 1 or 2 instead of free, and some token attack that can be decent in a pinch but isn't good enough to consider an attacker. Stage 2 decks have such specific turn-by-turn needs that they NEED an effect like this to function. Claydol worked because the sheer volume of cards you saw was almost as effective as QS.

I really hope PCL does something soon, because Uxie isn't gonna stick around much longer - Japan's already playing without it!
 
How are the sales of the cards? What about attendance level? I don't know how they are doing but If TheDarkTwins is right and both of those are not doing bad then the game is not dying, if you don't like a format does not mean the game is dying if attendance and sales are doing well. With the new games coming out right now would be the time to make the TCG even bigger, lets see if TPCi capitalizes on it since in my opinion they failed to capitalize when Diamond and Pearl were released. I do notice that the Gym was a lot more popular during when I got back in the game in 2005.
 
This has got to be one of Pokemon's low points in my opinion. I've never been so bored with the game. The last few sets that have been released have brought little or nothing new to the tournament scene as far as new competitive decks. And there are literally 1-2 new playable cards from Call of Legends. It marks the first time I have absolutely refused to buy a booster pack from a new Pokemon expansion.

I'm from Ohio. I can't remember but I'm pretty sure that a Machamp deck won states here last year or the year before. And the tournament scene was mostly populated by SP decks. Here we are a year later and a Machamp deck wins States again, and again its mostly SP decks. BORING!!!!

The format is an absolute snooze fest.
 
When did Pokemon Die? It was stillborn.

Base>Rocket was not all that great. Haymaker was too dominant. Played without Haymaker, it's quite fun though, but Blastoise is a little too fast.

Gym needed to be broken down into it's own block over 4 sets with Base>Fossil gone atleast. Not much made an impact. Didn't help that Surge and Giovanni were terrible. Gym SHOULD have been 8 viable decks if made well, with mixes of same types(Brock/Giovanni, Erika/Koga). Rocket should have mixed with Dark. By itself, not a bad block. Again, select cards are too dominant.

Neo was just urgh. Thanks to the GS games themselves. 6 Steel and 6 Dark mons through the entire game gave birth to Darkness and Metal Energy, the abominations they are. Darkness and Metal should have been absorbed into other types until RS, where basic Darkness and Metal should have happened. Then there's Sneasel and Slowking. Urgh. Too good.

Not too familiar with the E series. Never was experienced them.

Come EX and the EX mons, I don't think the game was all that bad. Sure, the EX were an abomination of Marketing and far too rare, but the game was better as a game than it had ever been. Come Holon, I think it said a lot when Metanite ran no EX mons. If the EXs had been toned down to normal cards, or not existed, this could have been an example of how to do this TCG. It still is, just minus the EX Super Rares. This is the high point.

Come DP, DP had a decent start. DP is a great base. MT.. not bad. SW on? BRO-KEN. Broken until atleast HGSS. Most every set, something to ruin the game. With HGSS, DP-ARC should have been gone. I know, a set should have a long time of play, but HGSS was too obviously a base(read: Reboot) and SP is a problem. It's likely going to happen this year, and the game should get back to early DP atleast.

I do have to give HGSS something, Prime/LEGEND are fantastic mechanics. Primes are not too rare, while a little strong, not undefeatable, and generally pretty good. Everything LvX and EX should have been. While LEGEND fills the 'OMG, AS A COLLECTOR I WANTS IT/Sells packets' quota.

TL; DR?

Game has always had massive issues, it should strive to be like EX or HGSS eras, not Base or DP. Rotations should happen when needed for City/State/National atleast, not dictated by sales.
 
The Gorn said:
Was there a pre-release of Base set?
Click to expand...

No. That's why the error Prerelease Raichu has sold for $10,000. It shouldn't exist.

There was also no prerelease for Jungle, just a prerelease card.

WotC only held a few prerelease events, even thought they released PR cards for about 7 sets.
After the Gym sets, they stopped even issuing PR cards.
 
sdp said:
I do notice that the Gym was a lot more popular during when I got back in the game in 2005.
Click to expand...

Average number of unique users per day on the Gym through 2005: 400 at the beginning of that year, 550 by the end of that year.

Average number of unique users per day on the Gym so far is 2011: 850-950
 
It look to have went downhill, at least around here, towards the end of Wizard's of the Coast having most of the control over the game. I personally haven't played since the Gym sets right after the Gold/Silver sets. I think the main problem is that they have to fight with Yu-gi-oh for younger audiences and Magic for older audiences(assuming that there are a large number of players past their teens). Also the quick release of sets doesn't make it easy to keep up.
 
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