And when your playing kgl, they don't even faint.
I really wish for a mid-season rotation.
When did pokemon die?
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And when your playing kgl, they don't even faint.
I really wish for a mid-season rotation.
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
Brock/Misty PCDs? Weren't those essentially Prerelease packs or something like that?
You're referring to the Trainer Deck A and Trainer Deck B?
Those were made specifically for the test leagues that were run.
So, those weren't made for general distribution, and they weren't made until after the set was out.
If you mean the Demo Packs, they certainly were distributed before the release of Base Set.
I had read the question with our current prerelease events in mind, but the Demo Packs would fit the bill for a prerelease of Base Set cards.
Also, I believe that, similarly to B&W, the Starter Deck theme decks (and possibly PCDs) were released a month before the full set release.
TheDancingPeanut
New Member
As someone who was in the game, out of the game and then back into the game, it's kinda wacky to see people complaining about the current format. obviously you weren't around when every winning deck was Blaziken, or LBS, or Medicham. What were other major decks? Dark Dragonite? For the better part of a decade this game was such that only two or three decks had the possibility of being wining at any one time. And while this format certainly isn't perfect, I think it's one of the healthiest I've ever seen.
I could take any one of these decks to a tournament within that 2 year period and win: MetaNite, Flariados, Dragtrode, Ludicargo, ZRE, LBS, PowCham, Metro, LunaRock, Destiny, Mynx, Raieggs, Flygon d, Rock Lock, Spin Tail T-Tar decks, ZapTurnDos, Dark Slowking, Machamp/Pidgeot, Queendom, Speed Banette (or BanDoom), MewTric, Eeveelutions/Pidgeot, Jynx swarm, Speedrill, Salamence d, Polistall, Shedstall, Mercury, Scythe, Speed Scizor, Absolution, FlyCatty, Speed Arcanine, BanCham, Scrambled Eggs, Muk Lock, Huntail/Gorebyss, etc.
While there are more than just a couple of decks dominating the format right now, it's not so when you talk about strategy. In terms of strategy, everything right now revolves around two things: speed and trainer lock (to deal with speed). I look at the above list and see a format rich with strategy. I go to a tournament today and see donks or locks.
AyameHikaru
Active Member
I have to agree that the format is more varied now than it's ever been except maybe for some periods in the EX era. In our States' Top 16, we had:
3 Gengar variants
3 Machamp variants (1 was DonChamp)
1 Blazechomp
1 Luxchomp
1 Gyarados
1 Raichu
1 Arceus
...and a bunch of off the wall rogues I won't list because I didn't ask if the players minded. having only two decks repeat is amazing. Seniors & Juniors weren't so varied, but they cut T4.
3 Gengar variants
3 Machamp variants (1 was DonChamp)
1 Blazechomp
1 Luxchomp
1 Gyarados
1 Raichu
1 Arceus
...and a bunch of off the wall rogues I won't list because I didn't ask if the players minded. having only two decks repeat is amazing. Seniors & Juniors weren't so varied, but they cut T4.
TheDancingPeanut
New Member
The relevance of many of these decks is overstated (Huntail/Gorebyss? Shedstall? Speed Arcanine?). Those decks may have won some tournaments, but they weren't "winning" decks. You could go to to a tournament and play seven rounds and not see a single one all day. And so, when we're talking about "the format" I don't think we're talking about decks that could conceivably see play--but decks that actually influence the overall environmental of the game. And, the truth is, those decks simply weren't that good. They had a modicum of success, but they weren't able to compete with a few of their dominating counterparts on a consistent basis.
The second point I'd made is that even when these decks existed in the same format, they weren't played at the same time. There were always two or three that were more dominant, and as such replaced the others as the most viable options. When Rock Lock was big, 75% of a top cut would be Rock Lock. Lumping all of these together is somewhat disingenuous, because it implies that all of them were equally viable within a two year period.
But, I do cede a little bit to your point about strategy. It does seem like perhaps there are less options there. I haven't really been active enough to comment on that yet.
Pheonixsong, I'll concede a bit with some of the decks I listed. Huntail/Gorebyss I threw in the list because it was something I tried running for awhile. Scythe is a deck my brother championed that sadly never saw much play either. But I'll stand behind a majority of the decks I mentioned. You pointed out LBS, Blaziken, and Medicham. The period of time I'm referring to is the '05-'06 and '06-'07 seasons, just before Gardevoir/Gallade stormed an entire format for a year. This was just after Rock Lock and Blaziken decks were so big. I didn't play during those years, but from what I've heard those decks were overplayed, as you suggested. My experience with this stems, as I said, from a two-year period.
To say that these decks weren't played at the same time was not my experience at all; it might have been yours, but here's what I played at Nationals in 2006, in round order: 1. LBS, 2. Medicham ex, 3. Muk/Weezing, 4. Metanite, 5. Ludicargo, 6. Dragtrode, 7. Flariados. I can't remember how many rounds there were, so I might be missing a few matchups (I vaguely remember facing LudiCargo twice, hmm...). Here's what I played at Worlds in 2006, in round order: 1. Bancham, 2. Dragtrode, 3. Ampharos/Quagsire, 4. Spinning Tail Tyranitar, 5. LBS, 6. Metanite. In the top cut I played against a Machamp deck that Gino was playing, then faced Queendom in the top 16. My brother lost to an Arcanine ex deck in the top 32. And finally, the Regionals decks I played against that year were: Metagross/Latios/Latias, LBS, Umbreon ex/Weezing, Spinning Tail T-Tar, Ludicargo, LBS. In the top cut I faced ZRE, LBS, Ludicargo, and Queendom. So, at some of the biggest tournaments I played in that year, I faced:
LBS
Ludicargo
Queendom
Flariados
Metanite
Dragtrode
Medicham ex
Bannette ex/Medicham ex
Muk/Weezing
Ampharos/Quagsire
Spinning Tail Tyranitar
Machamp
Umbreon ex/Weezing
Metagross/Latias/Latios
ZRE
So off that list I'll single out Umbreon ex/Weezing, Amparos/Quagsire, Muk/Weezing, and that Metagross deck as decks that didn't have much of an impact on the format. Oh, and Bancham, even though it was a "secret deck" for Worlds in 2006. The other decks though were played by tons of people. Queendom, Metanite, Ludicargo, Dragtrode, Spinning Tail T-Tar... these were the decks that made up the '05-'06 season, not to mention the Nationals secret deck (Raieggs) or the winner of Worlds (Mewtric). To suggest that this year was ruled by LBS is, from my point of view, misguided. Did you play much during this season?
Moving into the '06-'07 season, things seemed equally diverse. I remember Metanite and Raieggs being the best decks in the format at the time, but Raieggs lost a bit of popularity and Metanite had its counters (Destiny, Bandoom). I didn't go to Nationals or Worlds that year, so I can't comment on what I saw, but Absolution won both Nationals and Worlds, and my Regionals saw an enormously diverse field with Bannette/Houndoom, Shiftry ex, Metanite, Raieggs, Flygon ex, Delta Flygon decks, etc. These were decks that were top-cutting normally at tournaments, not random decks popping up here and there (like Arceus or Steelix today).
I guess the part that bothers me is the part you agreed with, the fact that in terms of strategy, the game is so limited today. I can either choose to play a deck that attempts to pump out as much damage in as little time as possible (Gyarados, Luxchomp), or I can slow everything down with trainer lock (Vilegar). Dialgachomp can do either, but only based on one's starting hand (the same can be said of Sablelock). I think of the decks people played back then, and strategies were all over the place. Raieggs could spread damage, Medicham ex could lock powers, Ludicargo could play a ton of single techs, Dragtrode manipulated energy, Polistall hid behind Fossils, Flariados was THE special condition deck, and on and on. Today, I can play speed, lock, or maybe a tank deck (Steelix) if people forgot to bring their Blazikens to the tournament that day. When I try to deviate from those two core strategies, my ideas don't hold up.
TL; DR: From where I stand, the '05-'06 and '06-'07 seasons were extremely diverse, strategy and deck-wise. I faced lots of different decks, and every set that came out seemed to give the players more options to use. Nowadays the game is boring because it revolves around the use of two core strategies: speed and trainer lock.
NoPoke
Active Member
If you take a diverse format and emphasise one aspect through new cards then it is no surprise when the format shifts in favour of that aspect. PCL have had their foot on the gas pedal for a long time and it shows in the format we have. This isn't a new phenomenon the early days of pokemon tcg had a similar problem with hay-maker. I hope PCL move their foot onto the brake pedal as the speed obsessed format is only fun for a limited amount of time and many players are bored with fast, faster, faster-still.
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
I'd like to see a Status Effect deck do well, like the old Flariados. Even a beatstick deck like Metanite or Electranite (which I still love BTW) was interesting because there was that focus on recycling for attack power. Right now, decks seem to be speed, speed, and more speed, and that includes the lock style and even the setup style decks.
Scipio
New Member
It helps that while those decks had a broken engine back then, that engine was available to ALL decks (The only Holon Engine card that was a bit exclusive to them was Adventurer, right? I mean IIRC all the others couldve been put to good use by others...or maybe Researcher...). The broken engine we have NOW is exclusive to SP's.
Furthermore, thanks to Uxie, you can smack down a bunch of resources, drop Uxie and be on your merry way. That wasn't a luxury decks had back then. Sure they had drawpower, but it mostly boiled down to a few turns of Castforming, maybe a Steven, some Metagross...and that's it. Meant your choices were a lot more important.
Furthermore, thanks to Uxie, you can smack down a bunch of resources, drop Uxie and be on your merry way. That wasn't a luxury decks had back then. Sure they had drawpower, but it mostly boiled down to a few turns of Castforming, maybe a Steven, some Metagross...and that's it. Meant your choices were a lot more important.
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