One thing worth noting here is that in many other forms of entertainment (video games, movies, etc.), prices for older materials does go down as time goes on. The timeline varies by media, but it does happen, either as a result of action by the manufacturer or other market forces. Is that a good thing? Maybe, maybe not.
Should Pokemon Catcher Be Made Into a League Promo?
- Thread starter Poke Trainer J
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I firmly believe that if they release Catchers as league promos, that the demand for them will remain about the same. The price raised from average of $10 to $15 once BRS started and if anything, releasing them as a league promo may drop it a few dollars but nothing tremendous. Most people will want to hold onto their catchers and not sell them, because most serious players have more than one deck at a time.
So yes, good idea.
So yes, good idea.
Swordfish1989
New Member
Yes, everything old loses value with time, until enough time passes for said item to now be considered a collectible and become worth more than a new item.
But that's not a very good comparison if you want to justify the release of Promo Catchers. Retailers and Manufacturers lower costs of games and other medias because it gets old, people have played it and don't want it anymore, so they lower the price hoping to attract people who weren't previously interested. Demand wanes while Supply rises or remains steady, so they do something that they think will increase demand for their products. Pokemon Catcher doesn't fit anything of the above. The demand for it isn't going down while the supply is also increasing as more EP packs are released and opened. Additionally, releasing Promo Catchers doesn't actually stimulate sales, it does the opposite. Why would anyone buy EP if you can get the best card in the set from league?
As for a comparison between entertainment methods, it's also flawed. If you want to play a video game, you need to have the console, which costs between $200-300 depending on the system and how new it is. Then you need to spend money on each game. If you're getting them new, that's at least $60 per game. If you're an average gamer and get like 6 games a year, that could be $360 on games plus the cost of the system. If you're playing Pokemon and just get the singles you need to participate, you may spend like $150 to get everything (all cards, sleeves, and a deckbox), and then you reap the benefits of that amount spent for potentially months as you play with the deck over and over again. The only thing video games and the TCG share is that they both have resale value.
meganium45
Active Member
Yeah, and if history is consistant, they will release the league catcher as a cross-foil promo, looking cooler than either of the other EP ones, and completely killing that set once and for all.
I have no problem with them promoing some mid level stuff, but the era of the Uxie and Claydol promos was just about too much for card stores to deal with. At least in THOSE sets, they didn't promo the key Level Xs - one of which was Uxie. Oh, wait, they DID in Great Encounters!!!
In my mind, promos of some of the draw trainers are always fun, especially those that have been released a few times....Juniper, Bianca would be fine, Cheren, Energy Switch...Just let us have our chase cards in the sets!!!
Vince
I have no problem with them promoing some mid level stuff, but the era of the Uxie and Claydol promos was just about too much for card stores to deal with. At least in THOSE sets, they didn't promo the key Level Xs - one of which was Uxie. Oh, wait, they DID in Great Encounters!!!
In my mind, promos of some of the draw trainers are always fun, especially those that have been released a few times....Juniper, Bianca would be fine, Cheren, Energy Switch...Just let us have our chase cards in the sets!!!
Vince
CrystalEyeMonster
New Member
No.
It would run too high.
Expensive enough as is.
It would run too high.
Expensive enough as is.
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Mystery Thing
Administrator
If true, that's a different problem altogether.
Otaku
Active Member
Vince: You're not wrong that Pokémon, as a TCG, doesn't generate enough profits for a lot of the various gaming stores. Now you have to ask yourself "why?", just as you did for why events weren't being held in or sponsored by gaming stores. Where I think you are wrong is how everything is connected, and ultimately "the why" behind it.
I want to be concise, but even I know I tend to go on at length. So the short answer is that reprinting Pokémon Catcher will just remove the last excuse for a bad set not moving. The mistakes already happened. A single Uncommon shouldn't be what moves a set. As a whole, most sets anymore contain a lot of filler, whether from a competitive or a creative stand point. That is a problem separate from whether or not to reprint Pokémon Catcher.
Emerging Powers is over one year old; if a store hasn't sold out of it yet... something was already wrong. The store's supply has outstripped demand, and there are numerous possible reasons for that; I almost wasted time bringing them up to answer individually, but I'll wait until asked (or someone forces my hand by callously ignoring them).
Right now we are talking about speculative store sales of booster packs that haven't sold over the past year despite being the only source for the Uncomon version of Pokémon Catcher, and how that doesn't motivate a store to sponsor a league, versus how high prices on singles and a set that isn't worth buying except for pretty much one Uncommon is scaring people off of OP. Seeing the connection? Bad set is bad set.
I want to be concise, but even I know I tend to go on at length. So the short answer is that reprinting Pokémon Catcher will just remove the last excuse for a bad set not moving. The mistakes already happened. A single Uncommon shouldn't be what moves a set. As a whole, most sets anymore contain a lot of filler, whether from a competitive or a creative stand point. That is a problem separate from whether or not to reprint Pokémon Catcher.
Emerging Powers is over one year old; if a store hasn't sold out of it yet... something was already wrong. The store's supply has outstripped demand, and there are numerous possible reasons for that; I almost wasted time bringing them up to answer individually, but I'll wait until asked (or someone forces my hand by callously ignoring them).
Right now we are talking about speculative store sales of booster packs that haven't sold over the past year despite being the only source for the Uncomon version of Pokémon Catcher, and how that doesn't motivate a store to sponsor a league, versus how high prices on singles and a set that isn't worth buying except for pretty much one Uncommon is scaring people off of OP. Seeing the connection? Bad set is bad set.
meganium45
Active Member
No, I look at it from a different perspective, and I will be clear I am speaking here as a store owner.
For Pokemon, I try to have in every legal set in the "block". I try and price the packs so they will sell, and yes, I have about a billion black and white packs as they were 1 per tin for the EX series tins.
I accepted a long time ago that Black and White packs were going to be a dead item.
Now, we have a second set that is STILL being reprinted for stores - once again in the EX Tins, in the Kyurem boxes, and other repacks. Those packs have to be sold somehow, in the boxed set or not.
If you are still sitting with your ORIGINAL packs in the store, that is one thing. Yours sales/ordering may be out of whack.
If you are sitting with NEW Emerging powers on your shelves, that to me is another story altogether.
They hit a home run, from a retailer perspective on 2 of their last 3 items.
The Dragons Exalted packs were 5*
The EX Tins were 4.5* (Black and White Packs, REALLY???)
The Dragon Vaults would have been a MONSTER hit had the Rayquaza not been a "shown" card on 1/5 of your packs. Just like having a bad EX in a tin with another great EX Tin there, you now have 4/5 packs that are MUCH harder to move.
Everything else about the set was DYNAMITE (I don't agree with it not being legal for Regionals, but understand their perspective...too close to know on shipping dates, I can respect that). The card art, the holo trainers, the secret card, the big hitters...good stuff!!! For BOTH collectors and players.
But, once again, I fear seeing this set, and the only demand card in the set not shown on the cover - Fast Ticket, being DESTROYED by being a league promo!!!
Vince
For Pokemon, I try to have in every legal set in the "block". I try and price the packs so they will sell, and yes, I have about a billion black and white packs as they were 1 per tin for the EX series tins.
I accepted a long time ago that Black and White packs were going to be a dead item.
Now, we have a second set that is STILL being reprinted for stores - once again in the EX Tins, in the Kyurem boxes, and other repacks. Those packs have to be sold somehow, in the boxed set or not.
If you are still sitting with your ORIGINAL packs in the store, that is one thing. Yours sales/ordering may be out of whack.
If you are sitting with NEW Emerging powers on your shelves, that to me is another story altogether.
They hit a home run, from a retailer perspective on 2 of their last 3 items.
The Dragons Exalted packs were 5*
The EX Tins were 4.5* (Black and White Packs, REALLY???)
The Dragon Vaults would have been a MONSTER hit had the Rayquaza not been a "shown" card on 1/5 of your packs. Just like having a bad EX in a tin with another great EX Tin there, you now have 4/5 packs that are MUCH harder to move.
Everything else about the set was DYNAMITE (I don't agree with it not being legal for Regionals, but understand their perspective...too close to know on shipping dates, I can respect that). The card art, the holo trainers, the secret card, the big hitters...good stuff!!! For BOTH collectors and players.
But, once again, I fear seeing this set, and the only demand card in the set not shown on the cover - Fast Ticket, being DESTROYED by being a league promo!!!
Vince
That's why I think it would be better if they were Player Rewards, where distribution is directly from TPCi to the players.
League leaders would otherwise be strongly tempted to just keep half of them to sell online, etc. Some would be honest and distribute them all as intended, but some would not.
..... its really common for people to complain about what they don't understand.
I see what you did there!!!! :lol::thumb:
Swordfish, my post was more designed to potentially explain a consumer expectation than take a side. Personally, I can see both sides of this argument-if cards are too rare, players can "give up" and drop the game (which hurts sales), but if cards are too common, people don't buy enough product, making it hard to justify OP.
ShuckleLVX
Active Member
Vince, I totally understand everything you're saying but this. I'm probably as blind as a deaf Zubat and am missing something obvious, but when has Fast Ticket been said to be a League Promo?
Or are you making a comparison between DV and EP - Saying that if [Catcher/Ticket] were to be made a league promo, [EP/DV] would be worthless?
So, I kinda see where Vince is coming from.
But I also get where players are coming from. The more expensive the game is, the less people are going to really be playing it, at least competitively. And that will probably lead to a less healthy tournament environment. I feel like Pokemon has one of the best, if not THE best tournament environment and structure for a TCG. It helps that, at least right now, it's pretty easy to get started and be competitive with the EX tin promos. So, anything that will help make that environment even better (reprinting an expensive card like Catcher that you MUST have 4 of to succeed in this game), I automatically support.
It seems, however, that the really big issue here is that there are so few good cards in Pokemon TCG sets. If reprinting Catcher completely makes a set devoid of value, you have a very, VERY big problem with your set design. I feel like recent sets have been doing it right; take Dragons Exalted, for example. Rayquaza EX could have been a VERY expensive card, so they released it as a tin promo, which I really like. Yet, there are still many good, but not as obviously or and ridiculously good as Rayquaza EX, cards in the set such as Terrakion EX, Ho-Oh EX, Registeel EX, and Mew EX, as well as a fair amount of useful trainers and other Pokemon (like Tool Scrapper, Hydreigon, Garchomp, ect.). None of those cards have astronomic prices (maybe $30 at their peak, if that), but people still want to buy the set. THAT is a very good thing.
So, TL;DR, TPCi needs to design their sets better. Printing promos shouldn't be a big deal and should benefit the game without severely maiming retailers. At the same time, not printing any promos makes the game so unapproachable that you stagnate the games growth. TPCi needs to learn the proper balance (Oh, and PCL should stop printing cards as stupidly powerful as Darkrai EX and Mewtwo EX).
But I also get where players are coming from. The more expensive the game is, the less people are going to really be playing it, at least competitively. And that will probably lead to a less healthy tournament environment. I feel like Pokemon has one of the best, if not THE best tournament environment and structure for a TCG. It helps that, at least right now, it's pretty easy to get started and be competitive with the EX tin promos. So, anything that will help make that environment even better (reprinting an expensive card like Catcher that you MUST have 4 of to succeed in this game), I automatically support.
It seems, however, that the really big issue here is that there are so few good cards in Pokemon TCG sets. If reprinting Catcher completely makes a set devoid of value, you have a very, VERY big problem with your set design. I feel like recent sets have been doing it right; take Dragons Exalted, for example. Rayquaza EX could have been a VERY expensive card, so they released it as a tin promo, which I really like. Yet, there are still many good, but not as obviously or and ridiculously good as Rayquaza EX, cards in the set such as Terrakion EX, Ho-Oh EX, Registeel EX, and Mew EX, as well as a fair amount of useful trainers and other Pokemon (like Tool Scrapper, Hydreigon, Garchomp, ect.). None of those cards have astronomic prices (maybe $30 at their peak, if that), but people still want to buy the set. THAT is a very good thing.
So, TL;DR, TPCi needs to design their sets better. Printing promos shouldn't be a big deal and should benefit the game without severely maiming retailers. At the same time, not printing any promos makes the game so unapproachable that you stagnate the games growth. TPCi needs to learn the proper balance (Oh, and PCL should stop printing cards as stupidly powerful as Darkrai EX and Mewtwo EX).
bullados
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Claydol went from a $30 card to a $5 card within about 2 weeks of it being released in Leagues. Uxie went from $20 to $7 IIRC. There's nothing that I can see that'll tell me that this will be any different. Though Golden Catcher should still be a $15-20 card, but not the regular Catcher.
vaporeon
Moderator
I just like it more as a League Promo though. You can also report league leaders if you suspect fowl play. Making them Player Rewards would be a bad idea because not everyone gets them. I've went to just about every event for about 2 years and NEVER got my player rewards even though I was signed up to get them.
Making them as Player Rewards just makes them more exclusive. The idea is to reduce the price of the cards, not keep them inflated. We don't need useless stage 1 or basic Pokemon like the one we have be getting but we need good competitive card. I do not own any Pokemon Catcher so this would be a Godsend for players like me who can;t afford to drop 45+ for 4 uncommon cards.
Making them as Player Rewards just makes them more exclusive. The idea is to reduce the price of the cards, not keep them inflated. We don't need useless stage 1 or basic Pokemon like the one we have be getting but we need good competitive card. I do not own any Pokemon Catcher so this would be a Godsend for players like me who can;t afford to drop 45+ for 4 uncommon cards.
Swordfish1989
New Member
Frankly, I don't see why we need any more handouts from them. Don't we have enough cheap cards as it is? Just look at this:
Zekrom - Reprinted as Promo and in another set
Reshiram - Reprinted as Promo and in another set
Zoroark - Reprinted as Promo twice
Emboar - Reprinted as a Promo
Professor Juniper - Printed in two sets and came out in theme decks
Switch/Super Scoop Up/Pluspower/Energy Switch - Printed in who knows how many sets
Thundurus - Reprinted as Promo
Tornadus - Reprinted as Promo
Cheren - Printed in two sets and came out in theme decks
Bianca - Was available in theme deck
Victini - Reprinted as Promo
Eelektrik - In a theme deck
Kyurem - Reprinted as Promo
N - In two sets and theme decks
Eviolite - theme deck
DCE - reprinted in who knows how many sets
Kyurem/Reshiram/Zekrom ex - Tin promos
Rare Candy - Reprinted in who knows how many sets
Empoleon - Theme deck
Darkrai/Mewtwo/Rayquaza ex - Tin promos
Rayquaza (shiny) - Reprinted in other set
Altaria - Pre-Release Promo
And those are only the ones that stand out to me. I mean, seriously, we get enough breaks as it is; I remember back in the day in YGO before the structure decks where cards were never reprinted in other sets or as promos and decks could cost $200-400. You can built a top tier deck right now in Pokemon for $100. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Edit: Just went through my Hydreigon/Darkrai deck and half the cards in there cost me 50 cents or less. The most expensive card outside of Catcher was Darkrai at a whopping $7. Using TnT and ebay, I estimate my deck is worth about $125. for a top tier deck in a big game, that's wonderful.
Zekrom - Reprinted as Promo and in another set
Reshiram - Reprinted as Promo and in another set
Zoroark - Reprinted as Promo twice
Emboar - Reprinted as a Promo
Professor Juniper - Printed in two sets and came out in theme decks
Switch/Super Scoop Up/Pluspower/Energy Switch - Printed in who knows how many sets
Thundurus - Reprinted as Promo
Tornadus - Reprinted as Promo
Cheren - Printed in two sets and came out in theme decks
Bianca - Was available in theme deck
Victini - Reprinted as Promo
Eelektrik - In a theme deck
Kyurem - Reprinted as Promo
N - In two sets and theme decks
Eviolite - theme deck
DCE - reprinted in who knows how many sets
Kyurem/Reshiram/Zekrom ex - Tin promos
Rare Candy - Reprinted in who knows how many sets
Empoleon - Theme deck
Darkrai/Mewtwo/Rayquaza ex - Tin promos
Rayquaza (shiny) - Reprinted in other set
Altaria - Pre-Release Promo
And those are only the ones that stand out to me. I mean, seriously, we get enough breaks as it is; I remember back in the day in YGO before the structure decks where cards were never reprinted in other sets or as promos and decks could cost $200-400. You can built a top tier deck right now in Pokemon for $100. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Edit: Just went through my Hydreigon/Darkrai deck and half the cards in there cost me 50 cents or less. The most expensive card outside of Catcher was Darkrai at a whopping $7. Using TnT and ebay, I estimate my deck is worth about $125. for a top tier deck in a big game, that's wonderful.
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honchvire
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
Rayquaza isn't the chase card in Dragon Vault. Kyurem is.
Rayquaza's value is only hyper inflated due to the SR Ray debacle in DRX. Their value should plummet after Regionals once people stop freaking out and DV is widely available to the public. Rayquaza should have NEVER been a chase card, except for Ex-YGO players who love blinging out their deck with "Shinies."
From what I've seen from DV packs, none of the cards have a rarity, so you have around a 1 in 4 shot of pulling a Rayquaza out of the packs anyway, along with any other card from the set(though I'm not quite sure how rare Kyurem is).
I won't deny that Ray packs will probably sell out faster than non-Ray, at least initially. But once the hype dies down Dragon Vault should still be a big success. There are several playable and almost playable cards BESIDES Rayquaza, and DVs the only place to get em. All the cards are holo and ZOMG DRAGONZ!!
Dragon Vault: Come for the Rayquaza, stay for the Kyurem(and also hey salamence).
psychup2034
New Member
As a competitive player, I disagree. The only chase card in there is Rayquaza. Rayquaza's value will plummet after Regionals because Landorus EX makes Eels less playable, not because people will stop "freaking out." Kyurem is not unplayable, but it's not going to be a staple in any deck, even it if were legal for Regionals. Salamence is just bad. You're forgetting that Rayquaza is a main attacker in what many people consider to be one of the two BDIFs.
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