What do you expect the Pokémon TCG to give you?

[eriknance]

While there are those out therewho whine no matter what, I am personally ....less than satisified with how prizes are distributed with each passing year.

04/05/06 We used to have roughly 50 Gym Challenges where paid airfare and hotel were given to the winners of these events(plus a box of the latest set I think?). This system was obviously a broken mechanic as it allowed players to get to worlds far easier , but the money had to go somewhere after these events were discontinued,right?Stadium Challenges? $15 entry fee pre's + a box to the winner? free dinners at worlds? City and state etching on medals and trophies?

They always say that their budget does not change from year to year, so one would assume battle roads fill this void- I don't think this is the case.The boosters they give you were mass produced, costing them pennies a booster. The victory medals they give out are arguably more expensive, but surely they mass produced these as well and reused the same cards from years where the artwork was the same, minus the stamp(Or already had a template made,ect etc).

Also I realize all these events are free- but prize support must not suffer as a result.

Don't get me wrong though, I still enjoy playing this game and will continue to do so -prizes or no prizes-
but I feel their need to be some changes made, especially if the game is still growing in leaps and bounds each year.

I definitely agree with this.

Me too.

7teeen

 

[ShadowCard]

04/05/06 We used to have roughly 50 Gym Challenges where paid airfare and hotel were given to the winners of these events(plus a box of the latest set I think?). This system was obviously a broken mechanic as it allowed players to get to worlds far easier , but the money had to go somewhere after these events were discontinued,right?Stadium Challenges? $15 entry fee pre's + a box to the winner? free dinners at worlds? City and state etching on medals and trophies?

They always say that their budget does not change from year to year, so one would assume battle roads fill this void- I don't think this is the case.The boosters they give you were mass produced, costing them pennies a booster. The victory medals they give out are arguably more expensive, but surely they mass produced these as well and reused the same cards from years where the artwork was the same, minus the stamp(Or already had a template made,ect etc).

Any chance the resulting surplus created by eliminating the previous prize sytem has been used up? Surplus sustains for only so long and may have only served as a delaying effect to a reduction of prize support at some later time, at which time the connection may have not been noticed by the players.
Or there may have been a deficit in the budget, and eliminating the previous prize system served to close/reduce that deficit, instead of allowing for an increase in prizes somethere else?

 

[Pokemon Trainer Mikko]

What do you expect the Pokémon TCG to give you?
Fun, and when it stops being fun is when I stop playing.

 

[ARMondak]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more.

Most people are not asking for too much here, they just want to see a resemblance to what was given out in the past. Yes, the tournaments are free, and that's a great thing. Players (and parents for the younger kids) pour tons of time and money into this game. They want to see some sort of return on their investment.

I'm really interested to see what they do with Worlds in Hawaii next year. With unpaid invites being used the past couple years, it has been 'alright' considering that Worlds has been held in the 48. However, Hawaii is just so darn expensive - I don't really see how they can expect people pay their own way out there. Having the majority unpaid invites would be a huge PR blow to the game.

The game has grown exponentially the past couple years, yet prize support overall is down from a few years ago. It would not take much to satisfy the majority of players, just a few more paid trips to Worlds or adding another major tournament every year, such as a Continental Championship or an STS-like tournament. With the main prizes being product, which in the long run costs very little to produce, and tax-deductible scholarships, I think more can be done to reward the players who have dedicated themselves so much to this game.

 

[ShadowCard]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more.

I agree.

The "they're free, don't complain" is the line of those who are content and fine without change. Unless you ask for more, improvements and progress will never come about. Life amounts to little accomplishments if you do not ask for more. If there wasn't asking for more, we may still be stuck with prerelease notebooks--anyone remember those?--instead of card sleeves.

When asking for more though, it needs to be considered that what you're asking for may be unrealistic. For example, that the prize support adds up to 36 packs is really convienent. When it is shown that the idea is unrealistic at the current time, then you need to move on or improve upon your idea and present it with something new or fresh. Ideas are good, whining is bad.

 

[ColdCoates90]

Any chance the resulting surplus created by eliminating the previous prize sytem has been used up? Surplus sustains for only so long and may have only served as a delaying effect to a reduction of prize support at some later time, at which time the connection may have not been noticed by the players.
Or there may have been a deficit in the budget, and eliminating the previous prize system served to close/reduce that deficit, instead of allowing for an increase in prizes somethere else?

"Surplus"? They have a budget, and after say the 05-06 season they'd use a new budget equivalent to the one of last year supposedly.

One of the higher ups stated on here that the POP budget is the same for every year(Unless this has changed since it was said), there couldn't be a deficit or a surplus.

 

[SD PokeMom]

but look at how OP has EXPANDED in the previous years. more events, more players to support with likely close to the same budget = smaller slices of the 'pie' to go around.

how many players were playing during the 'box for a prerelease/trip via gym challenge' time as compared to now, considering that events just THIS year had between a 20 - 30% increase in attendance? i doubt very much that OP's budget...which is likely a marketing/advertising-type line item...is going to go up 30% in the next year.

it just won't...so just like everyone else, the OP team will have to juggle, trying to stretch a finite budget to cover as many 'needs' as possible. 'more prizes for us good players' is a WANT...and if the focus is on growing the game with NEW players, OP knows that having them pay entry fees to subsidize prizes for the 'good' players is not the way to do it.

jmho.
'mom

 

[ARMondak]

That's the issue though... how can the budget be the same with there being thousands of more players? It has been constantly reiterated that competitive players make up a small percentage of the people who buy packs, so in theory the total amount people buying cards should also have increased significantly. With so much more cash flowing into the company, wouldn't it make sense to try and expand the game even further? And giving out more paid trips doesn't just satisfy the wants of top players. Significant prizes draw the intrigue of potential new players, and keep current players motivated to stay in the game (and as a result buy more product).

 

[SD PokeMom]

That's the issue though... how can the budget be the same with there being thousands of more players? It has been constantly reiterated that competitive players make up a small percentage of the people who buy packs, so in theory the total amount people buying cards should also have increased significantly. With so much more cash flowing into the company, wouldn't it make sense to try and expand the game even further? And giving out more paid trips doesn't just satisfy the wants of top players. Significant prizes draw the intrigue of potential new players, and keep current players motivated to stay in the game (and as a result buy more product).

you just contradicted yourself. how does a 30% increase in players = the same increase in sales, if players are a small number of those buying the cards?

it's quite possible that those who *already* were buying the cards...kids/collectors...have been converted from 'just' collecting to participation in OP. if that's the case than any increase in sales would not necessarily match the percentage growth in OP...which brings us back to the 'doing more with the same budget' point.

jmho,
'mom

 

[Prof Clay]

The OP team is given a budget by the PCI. They are not "in charge" of how much money they get. They can try and convince the powers above them to increase their budget and I am sure they do their best because they want what is best for OP...therefore, they want what is best for you as players. You can lobby all you want to OP about increasing prize support, but they are distributing the pie out to everyone as fairly as possible.

Unfortunately all the money that OP players put into the company is not a huge percent of total sales. Face it guys and gals, we really do over value ourselves to the company.

The budget is what it is...but we keep expanding. In order to increase prize support above its current level we will have to pick out locations around the country to remove events....All of you who are willing to sacrifice your Battleroad, Cities, even State championships...send a note to your PTO saying that in order to increase the amount of money available for prizes...you would like to cancel some in your areas.

Any takers?


We victims of our own success guys...more and more leagues open up every year....these locations would like to have Prereleases and other events. More and more events means the money has to come from somewhere....and guys....We PTO's love you guys...but if we stop getting paid for our time we spend to bring you these great events, then that will be the day these events begin to disappear for real.

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

The OP team is given a budget by the PCI. They are not "in charge" of how much money they get. They can try and convince the powers above them to increase their budget and I am sure they do their best because they want what is best for OP...therefore, they want what is best for you as players. You can lobby all you want to OP about increasing prize support, but they are distributing the pie out to everyone as fairly as possible.

Unfortunately all the money that OP players put into the company is not a huge percent of total sales. Face it guys and gals, we really do over value ourselves to the company.

The budget is what it is...but we keep expanding. In order to increase prize support above its current level we will have to pick out locations around the country to remove events....All of you who are willing to sacrifice your Battleroad, Cities, even State championships...send a note to your PTO saying that in order to increase the amount of money available for prizes...you would like to cancel some in your areas.

Any takers?


We victims of our own success guys...more and more leagues open up every year....these locations would like to have Prereleases and other events. More and more events means the money has to come from somewhere....and guys....We PTO's love you guys...but if we stop getting paid for our time we spend to bring you these great events, then that will be the day these events begin to disappear for real.

To be clear I would play with 0 prize support, but support the idea of talking about change for the current system.

As for this quoted post, I'm not sure that I agree with the logic.

PCI has NO WAY to know who their main buyers are with high accuracy. They get POs from big box stores, small game shops, 2nd hand resellers, and many more. They seem to feel that the largest profit comes from the big box stores ... but there has never been any sort of scientific tracking to see who those big box buyers are. The ASSUMPTION is that these are kids who aren't in OP.

The problem is that OP players buy in big box stores too. I know because I've done it a lot. My kids love the tins and we get them in big box stores. When we shop at one for other stuff we usually buy a pack or four. I've bought promo boxes at big box stores. I could go on and on ... but I know that I'm not the only one who does this. Lots of folks at league will by packs and stuff at the local game store ... but they nearly always buy stuff at the big boxes too.

On top of this sort of anecdotal stuff, there are the very numbers you quote Prof Clay. Those OP players have to be coming from SOMEWHERE and the more of them there are the more buying power they represent. Even if the majority of sales WAS random buys two years ago the increase in OP might mean that this is no longer the case. Similarly we have no way to know if those random buys are going into OP afterwards or not … I know that I was a random Toys R Us buyer who found OP via that route myself.

In any event I’m not going to say that OP players are the majority of PUI’s sales, but I have yet to see compelling evidence that they aren’t either. The limited circumstantial evidence that I have seen would lead me to believe that the OP players simply HAVE to be having a huge impact on PUI’s bottom line either way though and that the OP player simply has to be considered at some point.

 

[P_A]

There are a few things I would trim out of the budget to juggle for other things - some of what you'll see this year, some ... not. However I'm sure they've looked at the budget with a fine toothed comb, and are going to take some interesting steps this year. As for the 2010/11 year I'm sure it's still up for discussion. Perhaps a discussion like this thread may spark some change - you never know. Just remember that reasoned, calm and constructive ideas will probably get a hearing, where whining, and just plain complaining will go no where.

 

[Prof Clay]

By the way...don't get me wrong... I would absolutely love it if the PokeChiefs could see how increasing the budget for OP would greatly increase their sales of cards world-wide.

Imagine what we could accomplish on a global scale with DOUBLE what we have now!

I DO think OP is the most valuable tool the company has at its disposal for increasing their profits, but they do not see it that way I guess.

I am not complaining about anyone having an opinion that prizes should be increased...No one in their right mind would think otherwise...we PTO's just want you guys to know why things are the way they are.

:thumb:

 

[Pablo]

I've recieved so much from POP and TPCi, that I can't ask for more. Anything I recieve throughout the year I really appreciatte. I'm grateful someone takes the time to get a bunch of people organized, have them play a game they enjoy and hand out prizes to the top finishers, be it 1st only or Top 32, either way it's all about the people AT the event and having fun and sharing with those people that keeps me going.

 

[Rainbowgym]

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for more.

I do, in North America you don't have to pay for tournaments and there are even prizes to earn.
So when are you (general) satified?

Most people are not asking for too much here, they just want to see a resemblance to what was given out in the past. Yes, the tournaments are free, and that's a great thing. Players (and parents for the younger kids) pour tons of time and money into this game. They want to see some sort of return on their investment.

Actually there is given out more, but it's not given to the NA players.
After years of getting NOTHING the international players do have the same price structure as advertised. Sometimes there is even product for Judges as compensation for their time/effort.
Next step is to award the International TO's (who are doing the same job as the NA PTO's) accordingly.

I'm really interested to see what they do with Worlds in Hawaii next year. With unpaid invites being used the past couple years, it has been 'alright' considering that Worlds has been held in the 48. However, Hawaii is just so darn expensive - I don't really see how they can expect people pay their own way out there. Having the majority unpaid invites would be a huge PR blow to the game.

Many Europeans, Asians and Australians are paying their way to Worlds for many years already
If they can do it, why can't you? The price for a ticket Hawaii is a joke compared to what others outside NA have to pay.

The game has grown exponentially the past couple years, yet prize support overall is down from a few years ago. It would not take much to satisfy the majority of players, just a few more paid trips to Worlds or adding another major tournament every year, such as a Continental Championship or an STS-like tournament. With the main prizes being product, which in the long run costs very little to produce, and tax-deductible scholarships, I think more can be done to reward the players who have dedicated themselves so much to this game.

Prize support is up for many Internationals players, finally after years of getting almost nothing.

And everybody in favor of paying to play.
Move to Europe, several countries were you have to pay for EACH tournament and sometimes with LESS prices compare to the NA tournaments.

There are people out there who have to work much harder, pay much more to play/organise/judge Pokemon tournaments, and those are the people I never hear complain.
I only read complaints from those who have free events, paying less for the cards, can count on prize support as advertised and are sure to get a Nationals.

I have a word for that, it's called "spoiled".

Li@

In any event I’m not going to say that OP players are the majority of PUI’s sales, but I have yet to see compelling evidence that they aren’t either. The limited circumstantial evidence that I have seen would lead me to believe that the OP players simply HAVE to be having a huge impact on PUI’s bottom line either way though and that the OP player simply has to be considered at some point.

I am saying for year s the players (and collectors) do have much impact on sales.
I also think it's not the mayority, but it's certainly more than "a small percentage".

 

[ShadowCard]

it's quite possible that those who *already* were buying the cards...kids/collectors...have been converted from 'just' collecting to participation in OP. if that's the case than any increase in sales would not necessarily match the percentage growth in OP...which brings us back to the 'doing more with the same budget' point.

I was just about to say the same thing.

Consider that those already buying cards just converted to playing? That's a common story I, a league leader, hear: "Timmy has lots of cards that he trades with friends but he doesn't know how to play. Can you guys teach him?" (to which we reply "sure!"). In this case, Timmy is not new to buying cards, he has been buying cards for a while. Playing in league may convince him to buy more cards, but that's probably unlikely until Timmy gets a job and has more despposable income to spend on cards.

Those who do not run leagues are not aware of it, but there has been a big effort to curb wasteful spending on the league side of OP.

 

[Phazon Elite]

Well then I disagree with OP's Philosophy. I see no point in irrelevnt but free events.

Simple, but beautiful.

 

[SD PokeMom]

no, simplistic...especially when coming from someone who *doesn't even play the game*...=/

'mom

 

[Phazon Elite]

Seeing as how he sees no point in irrelevant, free events, you'd kinda expect that he *doesn't even play the game*... =/

That fact doesn't make his opinion invalid, it explains it.

 

[SD PokeMom]

so tell me: why would the opinion of someone who has out and out admitted they don't play the game...and NOT because of these recent decisions...and comes here to troll a POKEMON TCG board because they have nothing else to do carry any weight with anyone, at all?

'mom